Tahseen: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the people. Let's show. I'm your host, Stacey Nkazi. And our guest for today is the incredible Dr. Pradimna Pandey. He's currently the manufacturing HR head at Hero Motor Corp with over three decades of experience in the field. Dr. Pandey has also had leader leadership positions at organizations like Mother Dairy, JK Dyer, Torrent Pharmaceuticals and ACC Limited, a PhD in management.

Tahseen: Dr. Pandey is known for his flair for designing and implementing Innovative HR strategies and OD interventions. Welcome Pradeepna. Thank you so much for joining us today. 

Pradyumna: It's my pleasure to be here. Thank you. for inviting me here. 

Tahseen: the first question I have for you, and this is something we ask all our HR leaders.

Tahseen: You know, you spent almost three decades in the field in human resources. I want to know who is the human behind the human resources? Who are you outside of?

Pradyumna: People know me as a social media enthusiast for sure, and I'm driven by my people orientation. I love to connect with people and that, that, that desire to connect with people comes because I believe that my network is my net worth.

Pradyumna: That's what I am. I love my family. I spend more more time with my family. I keep that balance very perfect when I got up about what life balance. I think I normally people do that. They put work on the center and then balance their life. But I put my life in the center and balance my work 

Tahseen: around it.

Tahseen: Wow. That is beautiful. I mean, right off the bat, you have given our audience some really amazing advice.

Tahseen: So, what are some challenges or E X dilemmas that you as a people leader want answers 

Pradyumna: to? The employee experience dilemmas, if I talk about definitely as I said, that healthy work life balance.

Pradyumna: Or the pressure of meeting organization goals. So, as HR leader, you need to strike a balance between that. 

Pradyumna: Second is when you invest, when we talk about employee experience, you invest on career development of people.

Pradyumna: The retention strategy becomes important. And definitely the communication about their career is important. It's not only you put efforts on their development, also side by side. You should make it, their career goals should be very clear to them.

Pradyumna: Third, I think always in last organization, like we used to create the strategy for five years. And then we started cascading it down. Now dilemma comes, how much to cascade, how much transparency?

Pradyumna: I think these are the small things which comes in my mind as HR leader that yes when we talk about career employee experience. 

Tahseen: I think one of the expectations that employees have today is, you know, transparency, that they want to see the big picture. But apart from that, what are some other expectations that employees have today? And do you see the Gen Z population changing the narrative of expectations?

Pradyumna: One important thing is whether you are developing a holistic strategy that becomes important because employee experience is something which starts from recruitment till offloading. So are we putting our efforts, our mind into that direction, that everything we need to cover.

Pradyumna: Also, employee experience talks about continuous improvement. It's a process. So you need to have a robust feedback mechanism in a sense. That we should continuously assess their expectations, their feedback, and then try to improve that employee experience.

Pradyumna: When we talk about employee expectations, yes personnel, personalization is what people look for. They see that personalized experience becomes important when we talk about employee experience. Technology integration is something which everybody is looking. 

Pradyumna: They don't take it as an option. For us, it's a change. Technology moving in is a change for the last generation. For the new generation, it's a necessity.

Pradyumna: For Xen, next generation Xen Z, I think digital connectivity is what important for them, platform for collaboration they look for, so more collaborative platforms driven by technology becomes important. The next generation, an organization, not only next generation, every organization, every progressive organization is now talking about diversity and inclusion.

Pradyumna: I think that becomes important. It's not only important to change the numbers. It's to create an environment where everybody feel included. Some opportunity at workplace to be to be part of the social responsibility of the organization. So these things create much better, much fulfilling experience for employees. 

Tahseen: So Pradimna, you mentioned something about robust feedback, and I think that adjective there really stuck with me, robust feedback, right?

Tahseen: What are the most effective channels for listening to employee sentiment? 

Pradyumna: In an organization where, specifically when I talk about manufacturing organization with a large, there is a large workforce, the regular feedback sessions is one way of capturing.

Pradyumna: You have focus group discussions, regular feedback sessions. You conduct regular feedbacks, periodic surveys. That becomes, that is also important. Technology is helping you to scale it. On a larger scale, you can do those surveys very easily now. Oh, you need to promote an open door policy for sure, where employees can come and communicate, express their thoughts directly to management.

Pradyumna: And old way of doing it, suggestion box, why not? But more important than from these effective channels is driving an open feedback culture. I think leaders need to. Learn how to actively seek feedback, not only seeking feedback, they should also be very responsive.

Pradyumna: They need to respond to the feedback and demonstrate that the feedback which is coming in is important. And that is the way that how fast you acknowledge and appreciate. Recognize the inputs coming in the diverse perspective, which are coming in.

Pradyumna: Also important is. You provide training to every level. All levels should be trained on effective communication and active listening. It's important. It's an art. 

Tahseen: the larger message that I heard from what you said is that I think the channels are not what is effective, it's what you do once you've received that feedback that makes these channels effective.

Tahseen: What do you think is You know, what do you think would make employees trust an organization more and, you know, build, build their trust in the long term?

Pradyumna: See, one is definitely the leadership behavior. I always talk about a motivation which is driven by leadership behavior in the organization. And that brings, that brings the trust. I think how a leader is behaving. Inadequate communication can lead to misunderstanding and and disengagement. So that communication, how to fill up that communication gap how to foster a transparent and open communication in the, in the, in the organization that builds trust.

Pradyumna: That question every leader in the organization need to ask, whether I am comfortable if my best assumption, my best way of working is challenged.

Pradyumna: If you are comfortable, then only the creativity, innovation comes in. People will be openly sharing their feedback. People will be open and fearless to share their ideas. And that brings innovation. That brings more. Creativity in the organization 

Pradyumna: So trust is something which is built by leadership behavior for sure. But I also feel that trust comes from a discipline in the organization, which is driven by processing systems. Are your processing systems are transparent. Are they equitable? Are your policies equitable? 

Pradyumna: I talk about performance management system. It's important, but more important in performance management is the present discussions.

Pradyumna: I think, I always, I feel that sometimes poor leadership, ineffective managers make that that, when we say employee experience, when it breaks.

Pradyumna: So you need to coach, mentor your leaders properly. You need to create a culture, a culture of continuous learning in the organization. As I said, learning will happen only if there is creativity and innovation in the workplace.

Pradyumna: And it again comes back to your leadership behavior. 

Tahseen: what are some other areas where you've seen in the past three decades where you've seen employee experience breaking the most?

Pradyumna: If there is a lack of development opportunities, I think employee experience is the case. They will not see any of their aspirations coming true, becoming a reality. They are the employee experience. Whatever you do, it will not work. So it's more important that we create a learning culture, as I said. We provide more development opportunities.

Pradyumna: I mean, I always talk about putting efforts at the bottom of the pyramid. The people, those who are at entry, why not to give them an opportunity? I remember one of my earlier organization where we hired diploma holders. But we said anyone who wants to do his graduation further study for his bachelor's degree, we will provide that opportunity.

Pradyumna: So if you are having very structured way of developing. Carriers within the organization that is what employee looks for as that is employee experience by you. 

Tahseen: The question now is, Pradyumna, How do you retain top talent? And how do you ensure that, you know, they, like the investment that you have made, you know, follows through 

Pradyumna: I always Talk about drivers in the organization. We have drivers, those talented people, they can be drivers when they are motivated enough and they are satisfied and they are working for me.

Pradyumna: So that is the talent who drive the business. But in the organization there are critics too, those who are competent enough, they are motivated enough to perform, but they are not satisfied. So they are critics. You need to put your efforts to make critics into drivers. We need to work on their satisfaction, what they want at workplace, what work environment they want.

Pradyumna: on every two drivers. We need one critic in the organization, they say. But this Circles should go on. Critics should become driver, driver should become critic and that when those things comes then only organization moves ahead and the people are able to retain people.

Tahseen: do you have any suggestions on any kind of. predictive technologies that you know, HR leaders can use to identify who these critics are, who these drivers are early on so that, you know, you can retain them faster, retain them better.

Pradyumna: See, I think your employee satisfaction surveys, engagement surveys, they give you clearly those ideas who are drivers, who are motivated or satisfied. 

Tahseen: you're right, the surveys that you run, they are pretty much, you know, give you a benchmark of what, what's happening there on the ground. But that's only possible to identify who these people are if, you know, the surveys are confidential.

Tahseen: And there's always been this, you know back and forth about whether surveys should be confidential or whether they should be anonymous. What's your take on that? 

Pradyumna: So one, if for addressing sensitive issues, I think that anonymous surveys are important. If you are trying to address sensitive issues it brings more crucial, critical inputs while we are doing surveys. Also, when we talk, why, why anonymous? Because it's a cultural barrier, I would say. 

Tahseen: All right. Now switching gears a little bit Pradeepna, I wanted to understand from you about, you know, managers and how managers can become effective. So what are some things that should be done to make managers more effective and engage them better so that they are able to engage their teams better?

Pradyumna: The simple way is that provide training to enhance their communication skills, one, that is important. So communication skills is also not only about delivering, it is also listening. leadership skills are also important.

Pradyumna: So you have to have ongoing training and development opportunities for managers to enhance their leadership skills.

Pradyumna: So I think reward them, those who are doing good, reward those managers. So this is how you can make them more effective. And yes, of course, the mentoring and coaching is one very effective way of making them a very effective manager. Mentor them.

Pradyumna: Any recommendations there on how to, you know, identify who should be a manager or leader versus who should be an individual contributor and how that process should look like? 

Pradyumna: There are behavioral assessments. There are different tools which are available. So we, AI is helping in analyzing those data much better way. So use of technology, use of AI in finding out what inputs is needed, I think that becomes important. But yes, assessing them and then sincerely putting your efforts to see that we have their individual development plan based on those inputs which are coming from those assessments.

Pradyumna: That becomes important. You simply just Pointing out that this is where he needs improvement and then doing that. If you do nothing, he will also lose the trust on, on, on our, our efforts 

Tahseen: What are some metrics that you should focus on in terms of employee engagement and how should you tie it to you know, business results?

Pradyumna: See, if I see KPIs or metrics for employee experience. One is definitely employee engagement scores. You need to track it year by year, what's happening, where people are moving, not only as an organization, as a function, as a department, different sections, you can go into detail, because technology helps you to give those data very clearly.

Pradyumna: Then one important is your retention rate. Are you able to retain your employees, retain your talents? I normally track both entire retention of entire organization, but also separately for the people, those who are talent, those A players. We need to track them separately, how we are doing. 

Pradyumna: Even the small things like your participation in learning and development activities.

Pradyumna: When you do something, how engaged people are. Whether you are pushing them for the nomination or they are interested, they are self motivated to participate in those learning development activities, how they are.

Pradyumna: Or even when you move to a work location, you can find out what is the stress level. I think the well being matrix becomes important. 

Pradyumna: Do 

Tahseen: you have any, you know examples from your experience where acting promptly on employee feedback made a significant impact on their experience?

Tahseen: Or any such memorable experience you know, insight with related to employee experience? 

Pradyumna: I will share one good experience which also talks about what, like I joined an organization and it was more administrative driven rather than known for its HR practices. 

Pradyumna: I always feel that when PMS is something which can drive a culture in the organization, drive a performance culture in the organization, whether it is driving a teamwork in the organization, PMS makes. Plays a major role.

Pradyumna: I proposed that appraisal discussions should have one facilitator. That was my proposal because I always feel that any feedback is given in a better way if it is a formal environment.

Pradyumna: So I said there should be appraisal and appraisal, there should be one more facilitator. 

Pradyumna: And I was happy that when I was in a plant round, a very junior guy came to me and said, I don't bother what increment I will get, but at least I got one hour to speak about myself, to ask for support.

Pradyumna: I was so happy. So I think feedback has immense power to drive engagement in the organization. 

Pradyumna: So, you take people into confidence, you talk to them. Those appraisal discussions are like feedback sessions only.

Tahseen: Wow. That's, that's a very powerful experience out there. 

Tahseen: do you feel that there is any part in the, in the HR processes that, you know, is very transactional and definitely should be automated? And, you know, if you automate it, it'll take HR teams. 

Pradyumna: I think which comes to my mind is we automate your payroll processing first. I think that is the manual work.

Pradyumna: If I have seen for the last 30 years, we started with all, the entire thing manual. But I have seen now the pressure on the payroll people is less because they have more accuracy now. They have automated calculations are being done. Efficiency is improved. Your manual work has gone. I think payroll is something which is a big, big first headache.

Pradyumna: Almost all, every organization has automated, but those who have not done yet, they need to focus. This is the area. The first thing I talk about HR is payroll for sure. 

Tahseen: I have just one last question for you. For all those budding people leaders, first time CHROs, if you had one advice to give to them, what would it be?

Pradyumna: See we are moving in a a of technology technologies in technologies, a necessity not option. I think we are responsible for the people, connect the people part. I think see all ch other, whether how we are connected with people, our people ambition becomes important and building a culture of trust and transparency.

Pradyumna: I think this is fundamental for a positive employee experience. So, again, I will ask that same question, which I had, I will repeat that all CHRs need to ask, am I comfortable with my best assumptions? My best way of working is challenged by the team, by the organization. I am, whether I'm open for diverse perspectives coming in, am I able to take everyone together when I'm taking some initiatives?

Pradyumna: Because we, as people managers, we need to keep in mind that. Every action is a change, how you are managing the change. You need to be, your empathy part plays a major role when you are working. And last, I think, whatever decision we take, the rationale behind the decision should be known to people. People should know why this decision is being taken, why this action.

Pradyumna: If a rationale behind the decision is known to them, they will be with you. They will support your all actions. That's all from my side. 

Tahseen: That is great. I think that there itself was democracy in action. The conversation with you today was amazing. It was seamless.

Tahseen: Thank you very much Pradyumna. It was great having you today. 

Pradyumna: It was a pleasure talking to you. I loved this conversation. I am very much there on LinkedIn. And in fact, the last, when I joined HeroMotorCorp as manufacturing HR head, I just posted my iCard on the LinkedIn and it went, the views went to around 4 lakhs plus.

Pradyumna: And I was wondering where I was getting a lack of views, where, why it has gone to 4 lakhs. Then I realized that hero is behind me. And I also say that.

 Pradyumna: So I'm hero. 

Pradyumna: and we always say as a part of hero family, that MJ me hero

Tahseen: Again, I think you didn't, don't disappoint even towards Diane. You give us some brilliant insight there too. Thank you very much, . 

Pradyumna: Thank you. Thank you.