Tahseen: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the PeopleLed Show. I'm your host, Tahseen Kazi, and our guest for today is the incredible Hemant Kapoor. He's the regional talent leader, India, at Danaher Corporation, with 15 years of experience in the HR field. He's previously held positions at Leica Microsystems, a Danaher company, Pidilite , Johnson & Johnson, and Syntel. Hemant is also an ICF associate certified coach, and it's all about embracing a culture of 'and' in people's strategy and employee experience. Welcome Hemant. Thank you so much for joining us today. 

Hemant: Thank you so much, Tahseen, for having me here. 

Tahseen: So, Hemant, I think the first question that we typically ask and we want to know is that, you know, who is the human behind the human resources? But for today, I will, like, you know, take a step back and I want to know something else. You know, when we were speaking, you spoke something about the culture of 'and'. I just want, I'm curious to know, what is all that about?

Hemant: Yeah, I mean, I'm a strong believer that, you know, when we talk about organization growth, it goes hand in hand with associates growth or employees growth, within that organization. So it's never either-or, right? When we say metrics, it has to have a meaning so metrics and meaning similarly performance and people, results and recognition. So, and a culture within an organization, the organization growth aspirations and associates aspirations all need to go hand in hand. So that's what I mean by a culture of 'and', and I have a strong proponent of believer in this.

Tahseen: Wow. You think, at the get-go, you just hit the ball out of the field.

Hemant: So, Who is Hemant outside of work? What do you like doing?

Tahseen: Oh, well, you know, I always believe that work and play need to happen together. having said that, I, I like to travel. I like to, I play the guitar recently. I have picked up hobbies. so one of them is cooking and I have started following, you know, a chef on YouTube and I do the weekend cooking as well. So, yeah, that's more or less about my personality outside of work and, that's who I'm. 

Tahseen: Wow, it's great traveling, cooking, and I mean, it's never too late, too late to learn something new, right? That's awesome. moving on to, you know, employee experience, which is the agenda for today. So if I were to ask you, what are the top two or three ex dilemmas or questions that you as a people leader want answers to? 

Hemant: I think one of the biggest challenges or dilemmas here is maintaining the consistency of em. of, you know, employee experience throughout so organizations, as I said, multiple processes, different timelines, you know, you, you experience an organization throughout multiple, time frames and through multiple processes. So, how do we maintain the consistency of employee experience throughout, the entire employee life cycle? So I think that's critical challenge and also a dilemma. I firmly believe that associate experience is, or employee experience is, basically, you know, hinging on three key pillars. So the first one is, as I spoke about consistency, the second one is technology, how you enable the processes that you have in the organization. And finally, the third one is more around, the values, the core values the organization stands for and whether leaders live those values day in and day out, right? So these three pillars in my mind result, in a positive, or not so positive associate experience and we need to take care of all these three things. 

Tahseen: if I, if I have to bring into perspective in terms of 2024, is there any specific area of focus for you, something that you want to solve for specifically in 2024? So, you know, when it comes to, Danaher and, you know, in my role, I feel, you know, we are at a, at an advanced level when it comes to employee lifecycle processes, where there's performance management, talent management, the engagement cycle that we have here. It's, it's really, you know, I think world class. Now for us, it is more about continuous improvement and it is more about how do we take it to the next level. So we are doing a lot of work in diversity, equity, and inclusion, associate engagement continues to be a very important area for us to work on and you know, I think And really, you know in my new in this role that I am as a talent leader how do we make sure that associates have strong development plans? They have visibility into their next level opportunities and and how do we groom them to take up senior roles in the organization so all that becomes a priority for me. So that's what we are focusing on And 2024 is all about taking all these processes to the next level and continuously improve. Awesome. you, you said that, you know, improving associate experience and I think, you know, being in that process of continuous improvement. And I think one of the biggest, you know, input for a process like this would be to understand what these associates are expecting today. What are the expectations? What do they want from a, from a job? 

Hemant: So, I believe fundamentally it remains the same. when associate join an organization, They while they want to contribute to the organization growth, they also want to grow in the organization and in their professional careers. So fundamentally, that expectation remains. they want. an environment which is safe, psychological safety we speak of, an environment which has trust. so these, these core values or you know, these core expectations remain the same. I feel, there are some gaps or some changes as we hire different generations, diverse talent. So they may have some nuances, but broadly, I feel the expectations are still the same. And, it's, it's just that, how do we hear, how well we hear them and how we work upon that needs to change, I think how, how well we hear them. that's exactly an important thing, you know, because I think at the end of the day, maybe the broader expectations will not change, but the nuanced listening is what will, you know, make all the impact in their experience. So in terms of that, Hemant, how do you listen to employees and stay in touch with what's happening on the ground? I think, for me personally, in my career, I have always. believe that we need to partner very closely with the business, you know,while we do get to meet, as HR leaders, we do get to meet associates in our office and, you know, we have enough interactions with them, but we also need to spend a lot of time on the field with the commercial teams, you know, understanding what challenges they are facing day in and day out and that really helps us come back to the drawing board and deliver interventions, which are really, which will really create an impact, right?

Hemant: Having said that, listening is not just one time activity. You know, we wish we fall in the trap that will have an engagement cycle. I hear get feedback and then work on that feedback and the next engagement cycle result should improve so that's. And year long gap that you're listening to them once. And then, you just, you know, there's a gap of what good 10, 11 months. So I feel, listening is a continuous process. Yes. You have your engagement cycle, you have your surveys, you have the feedback that you get, you work on that. However, you need to have multiple touch points with associates, throughout the, the, you know, year, you know, and really. Keep talking to them, understanding their challenges because these things keep changing, right? And the feedback that you get is really real time if, if you do it in this way. So that's, that's something that has really worked for me. and, and do not, forget the importance of. connecting in whatever time you have. So it's not about, I should have time for connecting or meeting people, connecting in whatever time you have is, is important. Whether it's a short 15 minutes conversation, even that is as impactful as a long one hour or one and a half hours, discussion on any, any matter with the associate. So I feel maintaining touch points throughout the year, listening them well, through various forums. Now we have technology also at our site, so it's not that, always we have to be present physically. So that also, I feel is, is important. So, so that's how, that's what worked for me in my career.

Tahseen: Wow. From a technology standpoint, any, specific recommendations on what kind of things can be used, because like you rightly said, right, this thing cannot be a one time process. It has to be a continuous process where there need to be multiple touchpoints throughout the year. So, how do you enable this listening, through multiple touchpoints? So, as I said, when we use technology, we have our, you know, platform partner for our engagement cycle. I think that's a global partner that we have. So that's, you know, we leverage that platform for getting feedback, action planning throughout the year. The other aspects now are, we have Microsoft Teams, we have various technological. tools that we can use to hear our team members. having said that, it is important to really build a cadence of monthly connects with associates, you know, through various channels, whether it is group meetings like town hall or whether it is one on one connect or skip level meetings. it is important technology is an enabler. So, it will enable those interaction. Maybe it will help you save cost. Maybe you can't be present physically everywhere. So, so that's probably the role of technology, which enables it. However, you still need to build in that rigor of connecting and make sure you have, you are taking out time and also connecting, as I said, in whatever time you have. So even a 15 minute informal connect with associates, you know, really goes a long way in building that motivation and keeping them, charged throughout the day. so listening is one part of the spectrum, right? Where you're listening, you're taking action, you know, you're making people feel heard and valued, but then there is that other end of the spectrum also where employee expectations are not met. where have you seen employee experience break the most? And what insights have you gained from those experiences? 

Hemant: an underlying theme here is I mentioned the three pillars that lead to a positive associate experience. So your consistency, your technology use of technology and the values and the core values that the organization stands for. I think there's a, let me go one step further. There is an additional layer that I want to add here is the trust factor. These all these three pillars would break if there is no trust within the organization. And, you know, we have had multiple studies for the business case of trust. You know, we say that in a high trust environment, the cost of doing business goes down because you spend less time. questioning, or, or not trusting each other. So, and that has a direct impact on business where it goes up profitably, it goes up 2x or 3x. Multiple studies have been done on this aspect. so I feel that, in my experience, lack of trust or presence of it has really impacted how teams work together, how organizing, how employee experiences the organization. And how really they, you know, they stay motivated to the cause of the organization. So that's where most things break. that's, that's the trust aspect. 

Hemant: Yeah. Got it. you have any, example of from your, experience where you've seen that, you know, this breaking of trust, like what kind of things can, unfold if that trust is broken? Any example? There can be many things, you know, that if there is no trust, first of all, you will find a lot of, anonymous complaints that start coming, right? People don't want to be named, but they want to, and it's not even a big concern, you know, in my previous organization and current one as well, we have a very strong culture of compliance and there is a speak up line where we are, when we invite associates to use that whenever they see something is going wrong, however, when there is lack of trust, you will see, you know, misuse of that option because even for small things you know, that, that line will be used. So that shows us that the associates may not have trust either on the manager or on the leadership or on, you know, let's say HR as well. So if that starts happening, I think that's the first indicator that, there is a big miss when it comes to trust. Other things are everything will start taking more time. You know, you will have to, spend a lot of time, in managing change.So that's also, an outcome of lack of trust. 

Tahseen: What are some things that you're doing to keep your attrition numbers in check, especially for top talent and new hires? Any recommendations there? 

Hemant: So, you know, in my previous assignments, I have experienced a situation where the where we had high attrition. So what we did over there was, because, you know, the insight here is that once the associate has decided to leave, it's too late, then you cannot, you know, many times they say only 20 percent of associates we are able to retain, or even the number is even less.

Hemant: So we, whatever needs to be done has to be done much earlier. So one of the things that we did was create a sort of a heat map.  where our the reds are the high risk cases, the ambers, medium risk and low risk, the greens. 

Hemant: So those kind of discussions when you have a regular cadence with managers and the organization leaders, see, you know, you cannot resolve everything, but at least you are aware and then you can, really take action on some of the things which are, which you can resolve easily. As we call it the low hanging fruit. so that's, that's really worked for me. It has in fact led to a big drop in, in, attrition rates. we were at 1 or 2 percent for two to three years consecutively, just because of following this process, we called it the early warning, signal or early warning tracker and that's how we, worked on, you know, managing the separation in a proactive manner.

Tahseen: but what about the silent employees? do you have any strategies there in terms of how to address silent employees and ensure that they are not the ones moving out of the organization eventually. 

Hemant: Right. So, so, I believe, informal connects one on one connects. To a certain extent, you know, just having, having a coffee, having a lunch with associate that really helps us get, get real, insights from the associates and, underlying theme is trust. So if there is no trust. Doesn't matter, you know, you can do whatever you want. They'll not speak. But if they trust you and if there's a high trust culture that you have in the organization more often than not they will share their mind space or they will share their what's going on. You know what they are thinking 

Tahseen: Got it. And I think one of the other take aways that i'm reading between the lines here and i'm what I am hearing also is that, even the ratio of employees to HR BPs is skewed. And I think a system like this could also potentially help HR personnel to focus on certain employees.So I think that's, you know, that's a great way of using technology.so shifting gears a little bit and I want to go into, you know, managers and like, you know, what is their role in an employee's experience? 

Tahseen: I feel one of the things that. We do well in our organization. We follow the 70, 20, 10 rule. you know, when we have new people leaders, they are given projects on people leaders, development. So related to people management and up, upskilling themselves, that's 70 percent of. you know, on the job learning that they get, 20 percent is they're assigned a coach or a mentor and 10 percent is, you know, people development related training program. So this is the approach that we follow, especially for the new people leaders who are coming in. and, you know, and that's how we make sure that, that, people leaders are, upskilling themselves and, and really becoming, the leaders that we really want them to.

Tahseen: Got it. in terms of, metrics, Hemant, what are some key indicators or KPIs that you track, you know, to ensure that your employee experience is in check? 

Hemant: So we do track, the, the attrition or turnover as we call it. we track, the engagement scores. we track you know, how many positions are being filled by internal talent . . We hiring externally. So we have our own benchmarks where, we want to be close or exceed that benchmark year on year so these are some of the critical, metrics that we track. on associate experience. Yeah.

Tahseen: Wow. you know, I really liked the third one about internal filtrate Hemant, because one of the things that I've been hearing through conversations is that, you know, especially about Gen Z is that they are looking for change. You do internal fill rate so that way, you know, you're actually rotating people, giving them what they want, and you're also bringing down attrition. So that's an amazing, you know, metric to look at, something that maybe a lot of people aren't doing right now. 

Hemant: So can you tell me about a recent successful employee experience initiative and like what worked well about it? Like if some, if people were to take away, you know, two or three learnings from that, what would that be? So, you know, I would like to talk about one aspect, which we did, you know, in my previous assignment and we named it as holistic engagement. Right. When we talk about associate experience, as I mentioned, it's not one thing or one process that will make that impact, create that trust or change that culture. So it, it is, you have to look at that in a holistic way. So we called it holistic view of engagement and what we focused on firstly, listening, when, as I said, we built a cadence about how we will continuously listen throughout the year. Through multiple forums, channels, use of technology, . Etc. And also we have our engagement cycle. So listening, well, working on the feedback and going back to the associate saying that, Hey, you said this, we have worked this. So that is one part of it. Second thing was, on performance, talent management, you know, building that rigor, of continuously having those conversations, especially around development of what you need to do to move to the next level or how you want to do well in your current role, what kind of development conversations with HR, with managers, and again, building a candence around that third is celebrating success and, building a recognition program. you know, we, we looked at, what kind of, what we want to recognize. So if, you know, we want to look for behaviors like innovation, so we had certain reward programs around innovation. if we want to, you know, recognize. something that they have done over and above their job, like a immediate recognition. So we did have spot award. We introduced those as well. So basically the need that we had, celebrating success, big and small was the other one and finally, I feel, having fun. So we did have a lot of activities around making sure that associates have fun in the organization. It's not only about serious work, but they also, have that, time off.

Hemant: And, and again, as I said, it's not one time thing, it's, you have to have that holistic And you have to continuously work 

Tahseen: .. Absolutely. 

Tahseen: just one last question from me, which is, if you were to give one advice to budding people leaders, what would it be? 

Tahseen: One advice that I want to look at is, as I said, you know, when you, especially around associate experience, what is it that is transactional in nature? What is it that's transformational? 

Hemant: So I believe, you know, leaders should identify those aspects. Look at the transaction piece of how they want to manage it quickly through automation through, you know, way or really remove that, but focus really on the transformational stuff, which will, really catapult that experience for their teams. Many times I have seen leaders spend a lot of time on the transactional things, but they are not then focusing enough, on the transformational piece. So that's one advice. do a self assessment, you know, where you're spending your time and focus more on the transformational stuff where you can really add value to careers of the associates, and help build a positive associate experience. 

Tahseen: I think that's it for me, Hemant. Thank you very much. It was great having this conversation with you. We covered a lot of ground and I'm sure people are going to love this conversation.