Tahseen: Hello everyone. Welcome to the People-led Show. I'm your host, Tahseen Kazi, and our guest for today is the incredible Sonali Chatterjee. She's the deputy president and head of people, performance and culture at Aon. She comes with more than two decades of experience in the industry and has experience and has previously held positions at global organizations like Aon India Insurance Brokers, Max New York Life Insurance, and Tata Chemicals.

Tahseen: She brings a wealth of experience spanning the length of, uh, HR and has been named the top 10 women HR leaders by Women Entrepreneur India Magazine. Welcome, Sonali Thank you so much for joining us today. 

Sonali: Thank you, Tahseen for having me over today. Very happy to be here.

Tahseen: Sonali, so first off, I think I you know, this is a question that we ask all our HR leaders, and, you know, we want to know who's the human behind human resources. So who is Sonali outside of work? 

Sonali: So Sonali outside of work is a mother, is a friend, is a wife. I enjoy, um, you know, kind of, uh, spending time with my kids, with my family, with my pets. I am very fond of animals, And I like traveling, uh, so getting the opportunity to go to different places, um, is something I look forward to doing whenever I manage to get the time out.

Sonali: Uh, reading a lot of books. Um, so these are some of the things that I enjoy and definitely meeting up with people who are close to me. So taking time out to Stay connected, uh, with my friend circle, with my family circle is very important to me as well. 

Tahseen: Wow, Sonali. I think, uh, what I like about The answer the best is that, you know, in the true sense of the term, outside of work, you're completely just unwinding.

Tahseen: You're not looking at being productive or doing something, achieving something you just want to be you and unwind and get that much needed break and relaxation. So that's great. I think as an, uh, as a people leader, that's something, you know, greater for other people to take away from you. Uh, so, uh, Sonali You know, moving on, uh, and switching gears a little bit here and going into the topic that we are here to discuss today, the state of EX in HR. Right?

Tahseen: And what is it in what is the what is it gonna look like in twenty twenty four? Just wanted to understand from you, what are the top two or three, Uh, employee experience dilemma, the questions that you as a people leader want answers 

Tahseen: to. 

Sonali: Sure. Sure, Tahseen So So firstly, I think, um, you know, in EX or, you know, as we are calling employee experience, I think it is really, Um, you know, becoming the core of what we want to focus upon when we look at driving employee experience, employee engagement in any organization today.

Sonali: Right? Uh, and I think, uh, as we evolve in this journey and as we kind of constantly try to improve The overall, you know, EX, um, at our organization, I think the dilemma or the challenge that I look at today, Uh, you know, and I'm sure it is not just my challenge. It would be the challenge for many HR leaders. Uh, is that fundamentally, if you really look at, Uh, you know, the various employee segments that we have in the organization, whether it be in terms of, uh, people who have, you know, certain tenure in the organization, Whether it be in terms of people who have, um, come from certain age groups, um, people who have come from certain, um, other employee, uh, diverse segments. Each such segment within itself has its own unique experiential requirements.

Sonali: And as an organization, uh, you know, we always struggle with regards to resources. Right? So there are always limitations in terms of the resources that you have. So while we walk on this journey of employee experience? How, as an organization, can we really, uh, prioritize all segments And ensure that each and every segment gets its desired, um, you know, uh, environment and desired organization To work in is really the dilemma today because every time we prioritize basis, you know, feedback, basis what we believe is, Um, critical and, you know, more here and now, we're also deprioritizing others.

Sonali: I think that that is something which from a long term perspective Would mean that we are constantly creating a vicious circle of potential segments that we will now need to focus on in the future because we have deprioritized them today. So which is, you know, where my dilemma comes from that how do we make sure that we actually, um, you know, have an impact On each and every employee segment in the organization. Um, 

Tahseen: that's, uh, you know, that's Question, and, uh, that's a very interesting response, Sonali. And I've interviewed a lot of HR leaders, and I think this does not come up So soon in the conversation. For me, I think this is the first.

Tahseen: Okay. Right? Uh, so I think, you know, I I and so, you know, my next Question also doesn't come up really soon in the conversation. What I'm hearing is that if I the takeaway that I'm taking from your Uh, the takeaway from your response for me is that it's about personalization. It's about, you know, creating personal experience, customized experience for each of these segments.

Tahseen: Uh, so my question then to you is that if you need to personalize their experience You need to be, you know, be listening to each of these segments individually. So what are some channels that you use to listen to, you know, employees, And how do you suggest other HR leaders should look at listening to employee sentiment on the ground? 

Sonali: So I think, um, we have a, you know, a multi pronged approach to employee listening, uh, you know, Tahseen and I. Um, we have seen, you know, uh, success through each of these, uh, platforms. So the first aspect that we, uh, focus on is on ensuring that we have an annual employee listening exercise.

Sonali: This annual employee listening exercise helps us, uh, gather uniform, you know, uh, feedback at any point in time, uh, from colleagues across the board, uh, you know, on multiple aspects from an employee engagement perspective. Uh, through this exercise, we also make sure that we are collecting, um, you know, employee inputs on any key strategic initiatives, any specific, Uh, you know, universal changes or strategies or, you know, um, aspects which have touched all employees, uh, which have happened in the last one year. Um, we we take this opportunity to also gather feedback from colleagues on the same. Right? So which gives us An input in terms of how we want to shape our strategy going forward on some of those areas.

Sonali: So that's one aspect. The second tool that we use is what inFeedo supports us on, which is our tool of Amber, uh, which is a fantastic tool because What it does is it helps us listen to employees on a very, very personalized basis throughout their, uh, employment journey with the organization, Um, linked to the various, you know, uh, work stages that they go through, whether it be in terms of their onboarding experience, whether it be in terms of their first Three months experience first six months experience, experience when they are, uh, you know, getting promoted, experience when they are getting confirmed, etcetera etcetera. So it is linked to the various, uh, you know, life stages or work stages that they experience at the organization. Uh, so, hence, it is linked to, you know, specific milestones and which hence helps us get that, uh, specific experience related, um, response on those elements. And this is again targeted to those colleagues who are going through those experiences, so we do have, um, enough and more insights and analysis to really understand what's happening with each and every colleague as they go through their journey with the organization.

Sonali: Um, this this tool also really helps us identify People who might be at risk, people who might be in the organization for a certain period of time, and, uh, we feel Through their responses to, you know, the the questions which are asked by the, um, you know, the AI chatbot, uh, we we get a sense that maybe there is something which is Bothering them, which is not clearly, um, you know, working out well for them, and we're able to identify early, uh, you know, any signs of distress that a colleague is going through and address those proactively, which again, you know, helps us hugely as an organization when we look at our people retention, engagement, all of that. Right? Um, the third thing that we use, uh, Tahseen is also in person employee listening through focus groups. So what we typically do is we take the insights from our chatbot, uh, tool Amber Through, you know, kind of understanding what are the pockets where maybe some amount of deeper listening, uh, a little bit of deep diving and Further, um, you know, peeling of the layer is necessary. Uh, those are the places where we probably, you know, plan A physical intervention, an in person intervention where we go meet those colleagues in those locations, um, or in those offices of our organization, Uh, spend time with them, uh, engage in, you know, asking specific questions in terms of their employment experience, specifically ensure that we, you know, pick up On some of those elements which we may have had as an hypothesis, basis the, um, feedback from the tool.

Sonali: Um, and we, you know, kind of, again, do some fact Finding and work through some action plans to address those concerns and issues. So these are the three ways in which we make sure that we are Constantly listening to our employees, um, trying to customize our approach as much as possible, Um, and ensure that, you know, we have our ear on the ground, and and we are not surprised by anything which is coming our 

Sonali: way. 

Tahseen: Wow. Uh, those all those three, you know, I think, uh, they are at very different levels where each level takes you deeper and deeper and deeper, and I think that's the beauty of that process that you are following. Uh, so, Sonali, there are three channels that you're using across the board, across the organization, deeper listening, uh, you know, across segments.

Tahseen: What are some places, uh, you know, what What does what is the employee expectations from EX today? Like, do you see any drastic change from what you maybe saw, you know, two or three years ago? How are the expectations from employees changing today? 

Sonali: So I 

Sonali: think the expectations are, you know, where we are headed, uh, Tahseen So like I mentioned, I think the the future is greater and greater personalization.

Sonali: I think each employee believes they are, you know, critical to the organization, and they are particularly the organization, and hence, their expectation is that the organization will not look at them as a Part of a whole, but look at them as individuals and understand what their individual requirements are. Uh, because even when we, for example, look at Different age groups. You know, for example, there is this whole buzz about, um, you know, our our, uh, Gen Y and Gen X and all of that stuff. Right? But If you really do a deeper dive, even within the Gen Y and the Gen X, um, the socioeconomic background that we come from We'll clear very big difference in how their mannerisms and their expectations are as well.

Sonali: So it is unfair probably to, you know, paint The entire Gen X with one brush and the entire Gen Y with one brush because, um, what is the kind of, uh, you know, backgrounds that they are coming from? What are the kind of educational, Um, you know, um, inputs that they have received, the academic, uh, experiences that they have had, as well as the financial background that they are coming from, Also plays a big role, um, you know, in how they're, uh, they approach their work. You know, there would be still, Uh, for example, I've heard so much about, you know, um, Gen Y having a huge focus on, uh, you know, preferring Uh, to to, uh, you look at a very strong work life balance and ensuring that they have, uh, both The ability to, you know, work productively as well as focus on their out of work activities and pursuits very, very strongly as well. But within this entire Gen Y, I have all so seen personally that, you know, there are those who probably, uh, still come from a little bit of, um, a gen x mindset where they are more than, um, you know, happy to kind of actually, uh, uh, first Focus on building their careers and making sure that they are putting in, um, as many extra hours as required to, you know, build their career Aggressively in the initial years before they start focusing on balancing it out.

Sonali: So, you know, it's not, um, I would say, fair to paint, you know, even The age demographics with one brush. Hence and, hence, I think the future of, um, you know, employee experience is customization, is personalization. It is, um, you know, we we talk about employee segments. We talk about various demographics. We talk about, you know, various slices and dices that we look at.

Sonali: But, fundamentally, um, if an organization is able to actually customize a personalized journey for each and every person in the organization. Um, I I firmly believe that, you know, that organization is truly going to be the one which creates that wow around EX. 

Tahseen: Uh, Sonali, there's one thing that you said there which really stuck with me, which is that, you know, employees do not want to be Seen as a part of a whole, but they want to be seen as individuals. And I think that right there sums up everything you have said so far. It's a very impactful line there.

Tahseen: Uh, so, uh, switching gears a little bit, uh, Sonali. Uh, you so in the beginning in the beginning of this conversation, you mentioned that, you know, Slicing and dicing in data and, you know, just being providing personalized experiences for each employee, uh, is, uh, you know, a challenge Most HR HR leaders today are facing. Uh, but now we let us say that we have, you know, managed to get the slicing and dicing of data and listen through each of these segments. Is taking action for each of these segments also a challenge? Uh, and how do you, you know, how how do you manage that part 

Tahseen: of it?

Sonali: Absolutely. So I think Tahseen that is obviously, you know, you kind of hit the nail on the head. That is probably the biggest challenge because Once you have had these insights, once you have had, you know, all of these inputs which have kind of come your way, uh, from the various employee segments and not not just from the various employees, I would say, uh, especially when we look at this three pronged approach that we follow. Um, when you look at that, Uh, you have all the inputs in place. Right?

Sonali: But what you need to really do is act upon that. Because, um, once you have listened to people, Not acting upon their advice and their input is actually hugely detrimental to any future listening exercise that you plan to do. Right? So you wanna make sure that this is an ongoing process. You wanna make sure that your listening builds more trust and does not break down the trust that you're creating.

Sonali: Uh, so taking action on, you know, what you have heard and ensuring that you go back to, uh, you know, uh, people with with the kind of, Uh, responses that they require is very, very important. And, um, and I think that's where organizations sometimes struggle as well because there is Always going to be like in mentioned that, uh, you know, the the prioritization which will need to be done given that there are limitations on resources. Uh, so that is where one typically struggles. But over a period of time, I think once you have been on this journey for a while, at least our experience tells us that Over a period of time, actually, the investment required starts going down because you have been in the process, uh, you know, for a while, which means that you have been constantly, uh, you know, kind of making sure that you have an ongoing communication, ongoing, um, you know, closure on various open items which emerge through these conversations. And over a period of time, you will yourself start realize as an organization that you are solving lesser and lesser because you've already solved for much.

Sonali: So that is, Um, you know, where I think organizations need to just, um, you know, kind of take that dive and decide that this is important. If we do this, Then, you know, um, we may be deluged initially with a lot of, uh, challenges and, you know, with a lot of queries and with a lot of Aspects that we may need to solve for, but as we go along, solving for those, over a period of time, this the situation automatically starts improving and Employees get a good sense of confidence in the process because they can see the impact of their feedback on how things have been changed around them. So I think it's it's an ongoing journey, but, um, as you keep picking up, you know, um, aspects to focus upon on an ongoing basis, Uh, the impact is real, and the impact is something that will truly lead to value, uh, for the organization and for the people. 

Tahseen: Got 

Tahseen: it. Uh, Sonali, any tips on how, uh, HR leaders can probably, uh, you know, go around, uh, go about prioritizing these aspects.

Tahseen: Right? So When you start, you might have, like, a deluge of, uh, things that you need to, you know, action on. So any tips on how they can prioritize these? Maybe, you know, Uh, do a little bit of each or, you know, take one and solve that. What do you recommend?

Sonali: So, honestly Tahseen I think there is no formula for this. I think, you know, depending upon what are some of the concerns which are emerging, one typically would need to bucket them into, you know, categories. So for example, when we look at Some of the concerns which are emerging, there could be concerns which are specific to business processes and, you know, aspects which are detrimental from a business profit standpoint. There could be, uh, concerns which are more related to, say, managers and, you know, how people are experiencing challenges with managers. There could be concerns with that which are more, Uh, people practices and policies related.

Sonali: So the moment you start bucketizing these, you realize that, you know, tackling some of these may be an HR concern, tackling some of the others may not even be an HR concern, but you need to flag it off to the right people who can solve for those. Right? So, uh, the employee listening practice is honestly a window to, you know, understanding what are some of the pain points for employees today? But does it mean that each and every pain point is necessarily related to HR? It is not.

Sonali: So what one has to do do is one has to make sure that once you have, uh, done the listening, you are able to categorize, you know, the challenges across The various aspects that it is focusing upon and then then accordingly, um, you know, assign responsibility and take action on the same. Uh, but but the onus of going back to the employee with the solution will still lie with the HR team. So the solution may be formed by, You know, business team, for example, if it's a business process, but the owners are going back to the employee and saying that, you know, hey. You had highlighted this issue. This is how, you know, the solution has been found.

Sonali: You will be, you know, informed by the details of the solution by so and so from so and so. So that kind of, You know, closing the loop needs to be still done by the HR team, uh, in my opinion, to continue to build that confidence. But, uh, does the solution necessarily always have to be an HR solution? No. Got it.

Tahseen: Uh, you started off with saying that maybe, you know, there's not one, uh, you know, answer to e you know, all the problems, but I think you've given us a very good framework of Customize, assign, action, and ownership. I think if, you know, HR leaders can look at it from this perspective, they should be able to start Actioning and actually, you know, driving results sooner than later. Uh, you spoke a little, uh, something about manager, you know. So for example and that's where I want to take my next question to. Mhmm.

Tahseen: Managers are an employ you know, important bridge between employees and organizations. And what we've seen through our So, you know, uh, through Amber data that we've, uh, we've researched and, uh, especially about managers that, uh, when a manager disengaged, The team that, you know, tends to become disengaged, which is kind of causing a ripple effect if you, uh, if I were to put it like that. So From a manager's perspective, what are some things that you do and recommend others do to make managers effective? 

Sonali: So, like, you said, uh, the employee or the engagement levels of a manager really impacts the engagement team as well. So one is, of course, uh, making sure that we look at managers as a separate Segment by themselves, um, and we are focusing on the employee listening activities, whether it be in terms of Yeah.

Sonali: The Amber data that we look at, whether it be in terms of the overall, Uh, colleague survey insights that we look at, we always look at, uh, a manager cut to understand, you know, how are the managers really doing, uh, both in terms of their own, um, uh, you know, abilities as a manager as well as their engagement levels and that of the team which is working with them. So all of this, uh, insight definitely helps us identify if there are any Challenges which are emerging in any teams, um, the comparative analysis in terms of a year on year or a period to period analysis This also helps to understand if there are any sharp dips or rises which are happening in the overall employee experience levels, um, which are associated with a particular manager, which again kind of, you know, become trigger points for us to focus upon, um, that particular manager and the team. Uh, in terms of providing support to a manager, I think there are multiple things that we do. So whether it be in terms of Focused learning programs around, um, you know, emotion, uh, around being an effective people manager, Around being an empathetic people manager, uh, even elements around, uh, helping, uh, you know, hiring managers understand how important it is to do inclusive hiring, so getting them trained through, um, uh, you know, a three step program on recruiting inclusively.

Sonali: So there are multiple interventions which we, you know, make sure that managers go through to equip them with the right kind of skills, knowledge, and approach when it comes to managing people and ensuring that they are, uh, you know, taking the right decisions, Whether it be in terms of hiring, whether it be in terms of managing the team that they have, entire, you know, life cycle of an employee, how they can Really contribute towards the same is what is, uh, you know, imparted to managers on an ongoing basis. So I think it's a mix of both of these. One is, You know, making sure that we are tracking and monitoring. The other is that we are we are enabling. I think between both of these approaches, We ensure that, you know, our managers, uh, are having a good time themselves and ensuring that they are, um, you know, giving the right benefit environment to the team.

Sonali: Great. 

Tahseen: Uh, Sonali for, uh, new manager, is there any apart from everything that you mentioned, is there anything specific that you do for new managers to enable them better? 

Sonali: Yes. 

Sonali: Absolutely. So a new manager is speaking to a specific new manager, uh, people orientation program.

Sonali: Uh, I think this is specifically for, you know, anybody who either joins into the organization as a manager or, um, is elevated into a position of a manager, uh, in the organization. And, uh, this program also ensures that, you know, the person She goes through an experience, um, which takes them away from their individual contributor hat and helps them understand How becoming a people manager changes the way they are going to be looking at certain things, whether it be in terms of their own Personal bandwidth management, whether it be in terms of, you know, uh, managing delegation of work and, you know, overseeing the same, Whether it be in terms of managing others and, you know, how how does one really, uh, start, uh, looking in the performance of How does one start providing the necessary support and the, um, and be a facilitator in the, you know, in in the, uh, performance journey of others. So this, uh, so this particular program really guides our new people managers, uh, towards that purpose. So we do provide that support And guidance, uh, for the same. Great.

Tahseen: Uh, alright. Uh, my next question and I'm nearing towards the end, Sonali My next question is on, you know, data and metrics. So what are some key indicator or KPIs that you track in terms of employee experience and, you know, like, is this the same across, uh, organizations? Are there some which definitely should be tracked across organizations?

Tahseen: any recommendations there? 

Sonali: So I think there are multiple KPIs that we track Uh, Tahseen of course, you know, the ones that we get directly from Amber are are, uh, you know, uh, the experience score which kind of continues to give us an insight in terms of what's the overall, Um, experience level that an individual is, you know, having in the organization, and we have our own internal targets around the same saying that, you know, it should actually be around this much Uh, we also track, um, you know, what's the overall employee engagement level for, you know, people across the organization, and this comes through the annual colleague survey that we do. Uh, so we want to make sure that we are constantly on an improvement journey on that, and we also look at benchmarks, uh, in terms of how we are faring against both ourselves as less competitors in that, uh, overall group.

Sonali: We also track, um, other matrices So whether it be in terms of our Attrition levels, whether it be in terms of our high potential attrition levels. Uh, we track retention numbers as well to make sure that, Uh, you know, what is kind of retention, uh, that we are seeing across the organization. Um, we also track Diversity retention specifically, you know, to make sure that we are not losing our diverse talent, uh, and ensuring that we are taking All precautions and all measures to, uh, retain our diverse talent, uh, as well. Um, we also track regrettable attrition, uh, separately to make sure that, you know, we are we are, um, keeping our tabs on that as well, uh, and making sure that we're doing well in that area.

Sonali: We track, um, you know, manager engagement scores, um, by, you know, each manager so that we are, uh, again, doing, like I mentioned, Comparative analysis and ensuring that we are able to quickly identify any, uh, you know, gap, uh, areas if necessary. Um, Yeah. So broadly, I think these would be the key ones. Of course, there are multiple matrices that we track on various other HR parameters. But in terms of, you know, Um, managing colleague experience and ensuring that we have, um, you know, a good tracking on the same.

Sonali: I think these would be some of those indicators. Right. 

Tahseen: Uh, and, Sonali, would it be safe to assume that these are also like you mentioned, they're key indicators, and these are something even from a business standpoint you would be tracking, Uh, like, what business impact it has. Uh, is that correct? 

Sonali: Yeah.

Sonali: Absolutely. So I have to say, I mean, all of these HR metrics that we have, especially in terms of Engagement levels, they are all gonna have a business impact, and they all have a linkage to business. So whether it be in terms of, For example, let's pick up high potential attrition I mean, you know, high potential depression is a key cause of concern because if we see a spike in the same, then we know that our Future pipeline of leadership, our succession pipeline, all of those are at risk, uh, you know, the moment that high potential appreciates. Uh, similarly, if our, um, you know, engagement levels drop or our colleague experience levels drop, then potentially, we would see a subsequent impact on our nutrition levels and which then will, uh, impact business continuity and stability.

Sonali: So Each of those elements have their own, uh, you know, correlation to business And, you know, business, hence, is also equally, uh, invested in managing these, uh, matrices ensuring that, you know, they take the necessary accountability towards managing the same as well. So it's not just an HR KRA 

Tahseen: Got it. I think, uh, that's a very, uh, you know, a a great point that you put in is that, you know, it's a leading indicator of what is likely to happen in future and, you know, taking preventive measures measures toward preventive measures towards it. Yeah.

Tahseen: Uh, I think, Uh, Sonali, I'm I'm I'm almost towards the end. I have my last two questions. The first one is you as you being the, uh, a woman leader, Uh, do you think, uh, you know, women are still, uh, are well represented today in leadership position? And, uh, is there still more we can do? And if yes, what should that be?

Sonali: I think definitely, Tahseen Um, you know, It's a better position today than what we used to be probably another 10-15 years back. Um, so I think From the time that I started off in my career to where you know, we are today, I think there has been a lot of work. I think, uh, the biggest plus is, You know, the the visibility and the acceptance that this, um, has had as an issue that one needs to focus upon and one needs to work upon, across multiple orgaizations So I know that there are organizations like ours, which are actually focusing on diversity targets, uh, you know, across all levels.

Sonali: And I think that's that's a fantastic, uh, state of affairs to be. But at the same time, given that it still needs to be put as a target, Uh, it clearly means that there is work to be done. Right? So it is not yet at the levels that it should be. It is not yet At par.

Sonali: Right? Uh, so to that extent, yes. I think a lot of effort, uh, still needs to be put. And I think the way I read it, at least in terms of the statistics, in terms of the numbers, I think, um, organizations definitely need to focus On the middle, uh, you know, layers, where actually the maximum dropouts in terms of women, Um, you know, in in this year's new happens because I think there are multiple occasions uh, where after Initial years of success. Uh, when a woman goes through certain life changes, whether it be in terms of marriage or children, etcetera, Uh, a lot of women, uh, unfortunately, decide to prioritize, uh, you know, other, uh, work life related, as compared to the work and the.

Sonali: And that is very, honestly, the biggest drop happens, uh, in organizations. And I think, The organizational culture has a role to play in that. So if there are organizations which have been able to successfully navigate this period, That's been because they have built a very educated approach towards the situation. They have groomed their managers. They have groomed their leaders To appreciate and understand that, uh, you know, women are part of the overall, uh, you know, social framework that we exist in.

Sonali: And if we want to continue to focus on ensuring that we provide the right kind of a work environment to allow women to continue to, you know, Focus on the careers, then we need to build, uh, enough flexibility. We need to build enough empathy. We need to build enough, Uh, you know, orientation around the requirements and the various life stages that we go through to equip them to continue to focus on their career. They should not be forced to make a choice. The important is forced to make a choice is when you start seeing, Um, you know, when, uh, employees circle from the Okay.

Sonali: The graph. And it is very unfortunate because, you know, they have themselves invested so much In their own career journey, anything would have invested in them. Um, their family is being invested in them. All of that investment, uh, unfortunately, you know, goes off the banks. And and and I know personally that there are multiple women on there who would have, you know, maybe spent five, ten years, uh, you know, trying to raise, um, you know, take care of their family and raise their kids and then post that, you know, They feel a sense of loss.

Sonali: They feel that, you know, they should have stayed on with their career. So if only they could have been provided Uh, a meaningful opportunity, they would be very happy to, you know, kind of join back, uh, the workforce. So some of these, Aspects of organizations look at more cohesively and, you know, kind of continue to focus on, I think we will definitely be seeing an impact In the women, uh, leadership numbers even more positively going forward. 

Tahseen: Absolutely. And I think on the topic of empathy, Sonali, uh, one of the areas which I feel also, uh, you know, women can definitely be supported is even if they are out of the system, uh, because they've made a certain life choice, Uh, you know, taking helping them get back into the into the system is also something organizations can definitely help them 

Tahseen: with.

Sonali: Very true. Very true. Uh, Tahseen In fact, at Aon, we, um, you know, have this, uh, process of actually identifying people who have taken a career break And, you know, helping them, uh, come back to the workforce. So that is an initiative that is, uh, you know, uh, that we are Kind of focusing on, and we want to kind of keep investing in that to make it a much more impactful initiative going forward.

Sonali: So, um, that is something that. 

Tahseen: That is amazing, which brings me to my last question, Sonali. You've been in the industry for more than two decades. That's a long time to, you know, be doing the, You know, the length and breadth of HR. Uh, and I think, uh, you've done everything under the sun that is you know, that we can expect in, uh, you know, human resources to be doing.

Tahseen: Uh, what is the one advice you would like to give first time people leaders 

Tahseen: across India? 

Sonali: Okay. So I think the first time people leaders um, you know, what I would like to just give them as an example or as an advice in which Honestly, it comes from my experience as well is, um, spending time getting to know your team Uh, understand what are the triggers with each and every person who works with you because, uh, as we have learned through our entire, Uh, your employee experience journey, no one person is the same as the other. So make sure that you understand each and every person, uh, individually. Uh, take that time to, you know, invest in each and every person because as you're bringing those relationships, Um, you know, uh, making sure that the team is highly performing, a productive team will become much easier to do as a manager as a leader because what each and every employee generally wants, um, from their managers is fundamentally somebody who cares for them, who takes the trouble to know them and to understand, you know, what gets them going.

Sonali: So as long as you're able to address those aspects as a manager, trust me. You will, you know, pretty much have a fantastic team working for you day in and day out 

Tahseen: Amazing. Uh, Sonali, thank you very much. We've covered a lot of ground today, right, from listening to challenges, to metrics, to, Uh, you know, women leaders, I think we've covered everything that we had to.

Tahseen: Thank you very much. This it was a great time talking to you 

Sonali: Thank you Tahseen Thank you. for having me It was a pleasure