Shivangi: Hey everyone, this is the People-led Show and I'm your host Shivangi Today our guest is the dynamic Preeti Das. Preeti is the CHRO of Wellness Forever Medicare Limited, which is India's third largest pharmacy and lifestyle retail chain. It has 400 plus stores across 50 plus cities and a team of more than 5, 000 people.

Shivangi: With over two decades of experience, Preeti is a powerhouse in human resources. Her expertise includes talent acquisition, talent management, performance management, career pathing, succession planning, and employee relations, among other things. She's also a mother to a nine year old daughter and a happiness coach.

Shivangi: Welcome Preeti. Thank you so much for joining us today. 

Preeti: Thank you. I also have a daughter who's 21. 

Shivangi: Oh, wow. That is such a great information. Wow. So you've seen it all then. 

Preeti: Yes. Two generations already in my house. 

Shivangi: Wow. That's so nice to know. But a strong mother to two daughters, already an impressive feat to achieve.

Shivangi: So kudos to you on that. 

Preeti: Thank you for the wonderful introduction. 

Shivangi: Awesome. So Preeti, I'm very I mean, I've read a lot about your initiatives you know, across industries, both in IT and in retail. But I'm very curious to know, what do you do outside of work? 

Preeti: Okay, outside of work. So in between, if you see, I had taken a break of four, five months and I tried to explore my interest in painting.

Preeti: So I put up some exhibitions also. So not that great, of course, like an artist, but yes, they qualified an art gallery. So I feel okay. Yeah, I'm at least there. So yes, painting is something I love and I'm a very spiritual person. Happiness coach comes from there only because one of my spiritual gurus taught me how, you know, I can live my life happier and I just want to spread, spread that to everybody.

Preeti: So that's one of my other things that I do, but of course that is what do you say? Voluntary basis, right? It's not a career or something. And best, I love kids and I love impromptu things. I'm not a very planned person. Many people like to plan their life, plan everything. I like surprises in my life, like to enjoy them.

Shivangi: That's so interesting, especially the happiness coach bit. So after this podcast is over, I'm definitely going to reach out to you and, you know, maybe like take some because you do look like a happy person, you know, like I, if if I were to like, you know, zero in on a happiness coach, I would like, probably go to you because you look like you've got it under control.

Preeti: Thank you. 

Shivangi: So so in so many years, you know, of your experience, what has been like a very interesting story, a thought provoking or fun or entertaining story from so many years of your experience that you'd like to share many actually. 

Preeti: But, you know, from HR perspective, I was just thinking that was something which was very startling that happened with me.

Preeti: So in HR, there are many theories, okay? And then they define, you know, your personality. So there's MBTI, there's DISC profiling and a number of things. So at the early stage of my career, I was introduced to DISC. DISC is D I S C. So D means you're a dominating personality. I is you're an influencing personality.

Preeti: S means you are steadiness you have in you and C is contentious. Okay. So at a very early stage, it, I came as a dominating you know personality and that is how I was being groomed in my initial stages. Then six, seven years down the line, I got into a role, which was more of compliance and all those that time my DISC profiling changed to S.

Preeti: where I was very steady, very thought you know, perfectionist and that kind of a person. And again, after 10, 12 years, when I got my first, you know, director level position, I became an I And that time I was doing all of this with Dale Carnegie Institute. So they were really, you know, senior people in this field.

Preeti: And I spoke to them that, how can somebody change so much? So that is when I learned that the role that you do in the organization, there are learned behaviors. What we usually think is I am like this, you know, I'll be like this only forever. That's not the truth. As you change your roles, you get into different kinds of people you meet and whatever your role demands, you get into those learned behaviors.

Preeti: And that made me realize that those roles, which were not me. I was not very happy in that 

Preeti: though I was 

Preeti: doing it as a job and that was another point of realization that I started working on this happiness thing that you know, people really need to understand what they are actually, and that's why when somebody comes to me for a career advice you know, in the organization, of course, there are so many people who want to go up, go to different roles.

Preeti: My first question to them is, what do you really enjoy doing? Because fine, you might think that IT is a wow career, but if I just don't like working, you know, sitting in front of the computer and continuously coding, I love talking to people, IT, I'm never going to make it. So it's as simple as that. And that people miss out.

Preeti: So I think that was a very interesting learning that I got through my, this whole journey. 

Shivangi: It's a beautiful anecdote, I think through and through, and you know, I, I've never taken a test like that. I think I'm going to do it online. Yeah. And also you know, something that I was thinking that, you obviously, you know, wherever you are in your career and you imbibe those characteristics, right, and then you fall on the spectrum somewhere.

Shivangi: But, but once you learn that you are the D type, for example, your, your decisions are also influenced a little bit by that. Would you believe that? 

Preeti: No. So the, how you use these profiling is basically as you get into senior roles, you know, how do you deal with these personalities? 

Preeti: One is 

Preeti: awareness. I know that I am this personality.

Preeti: So I don't feel that why am I not able to do something that the other person is doing? So I'm at peace that, okay, my personality is like this. I am like this, but I also understand why the other person is behaving this way. So it helps me, you know drive certain things within the team within the organization that the person's personality is like that.

Preeti: So I know what goes well with the person and what doesn't go well. So I put forward things accordingly to that person. So these profilings actually help us work better with each other. 

Shivangi: And also so important to have like a holistic HR view, right? Like you are human, a people's person at the end of the day.

Preeti: True, true, true. That's where it helps us. 

Shivangi: Yeah. But talking about, 

Shivangi: People challenges. Where are we? What are your top three challenges you're planning to resolve in 2024? 

Preeti: I think talent has always been an every generational challenge. And this generation definitely it's very interesting because I also have a 21 year old.

Preeti: Okay. When I was 21 years old, I had, you know, like I should own 40, 000 a month. I should have a house. I should be, you know, 

Preeti: Having this kind of, we, we had that thought process, right? But my daughter is not bothered about that. She just wants to do what she wants to do. She's into writing, she's into creative, 

Preeti: Things, and she got herself, you know, enrolled into American, 

Preeti: School of Drama, so she's going, and no inputs from my side, by the way, everything she has decided.

Preeti: So my point is, you know, the new talent that's coming up, They like to work in gig economy, right? This is the gig economy. They don't want to be tired for nine hours, for that matter, right? Not even four hours. They're like, you tell us what you want and I'll deliver and leave me alone. You know, that, that kind of thing.

Preeti: And dealing with this is becoming more and more difficult nowadays. Because, 

Preeti: See you have a gap. If there are company owners, they are of different generation. 

Preeti: They 

Preeti: have some other expectations. They feel, you know, people have to be nine hours in front of us and then only things are delivered. But we have the new generation.

Preeti: They're like, why are you bothered about where I am and what I'm doing? As far as I'm delivering what you want, it ends. So, you know, bridging that gap one and second, how do we define these things for these gig economy workers? That is a big challenge. I think as HR. Earlier it was, you know, person joins, a goal setting is done for the year, and or maybe, you know, for six months or a quarter, and you can get the things done.

Preeti: But today with this, where people are picked up on projects, Then it's difficult to manage all of this and deliver bills, deciding those KPIs and a lot of things. I think this is the biggest challenge I see today for HR to think how to best utilize this. And see, it's a good thing for the company because you don't end up paying annual salaries, but how do you put those measures in place?

Preeti: How do you get the result oriented? How do you manage all of this is something very interesting that we're working through right now. 

Shivangi: So I, what I understand is that like, you know, expectation and goal setting for Gen Zs, right? That's, that's one challenge that we're trying to, but besides the, besides you know, like goal setting and, you know, how to, how to develop the best kind of culture for them where they can survive is also retaining them a challenge because I did really like that, kind of hob jobs every two years.

Preeti: Of course. So retaining them definitely because like I said, you know, they're not doing a job with us. They're here only for a particular project or some, you know, delivery that they need to do. And they will do only if they like working with you. That is also one thing, right? Earlier it was, if you're a full time employee, you will first find another job, then you leave and go, you have that much of period.

Preeti: If I don't like working with you today, I can just, you know, not take any other job with you. I can do some other project with somebody else. So it's so easy. So even technology wise, managing them. At an employee level or a big, you know, worker level is another challenge. Very interesting. It's a mix of people.

Shivangi: Yeah. Very smart generation there, I think. But you know, among all of these things, how have the CEOs started getting into HR and now, you know, like holding HR accountable, saying how the, how the expectations of the CEO changed. From the HR function at this point. 

Preeti: I think, you know the CEOs have always expected that the business problems should be resolved in the HR way, but the big and the, all the kick, you know, always is that we don't have the budget, but you need to resolve this, you know, and that is where I think AI and these technologies are the things that we need to.

Preeti: capitalize on because you know how much of manpower will you deploy. So for example, in our organization, 400 stores, 400 different locations, I cannot keep HR for so many people, right? I need some technology which can help each of these people, you know, connect and get their things resolved. I can't have so many people deployed for them 

Preeti: in my 

Preeti: business earn so much that I can deploy so many people for them.

Preeti: So these are some challenges, at least from our perspective in retail that we are seeing and my CEO expects that. You retain them, but there is no, you know, cost involved in it, the least that you can do, but you have to keep them engaged and detained. So I think that's the biggest challenge I have right now.

Preeti: And I see you as expectation. 

Shivangi: Okay. And, and that's been the same across industries. Like that's something that you noticed in it as well. 

Preeti: Yes, of course. Of course. It's all the more because they are it people, right. And most of them are, you know, Either in different geographies working together. So again, they have a bigger challenge.

Shivangi: Yeah, but we finally feel like we're in a, we're in an age where, you know, HR is at the business center now, like, you know, we are talking about, 

Preeti: yes, yes, yes. So when I did my masters with XLRI the first sentence that my professor told me is the business of business is business 

Preeti: HR 

Preeti: will only remain if there is business.

Preeti: So you need to think that 

Preeti: way. 

Preeti: Think about business first. And you have to have a balance, of course. You know, like, if people are not there, business will never happen. If business is not there, we can't retain people. So it goes hand in hand. It's very important people understand that. 

Shivangi: Very, very wisely said, Preeti.

Shivangi: So something that you mentioned about AI, right? What are you using right now in terms of AI? Where are we? 

Preeti: So right now. AI per se, I don't think we're using anything, but yes, we are exploring a lot. Like I said, you know, we really want something where people can can connect whenever they want to, and we get that intelligence.

Preeti: If you know like earlier, we used to have these EWS systems, early warning systems, right. In organizations, which were manually maintained and fed by by their managers or something. But I think AI can really help us over here where, you know, they can monitor their behaviors. Work schedules and any changes that they see over there, pop up something to the respective business, HR business partners so that they can then go and interview.

Preeti: But that intelligence can come from ai, I feel, you know? 

Preeti: Mm-Hmm. . And that is 

Preeti: what I'm currently looking for. Something where I can find, you know, and I'm, I think inFeedo does have that, so I'm very keen to know about that. And also the, we have a learning platform called Disprz They are also you know, having in bits and pieces some AI implemented over there, which really helps us.

Preeti: So, for example, if there is anybody who is falling short in certain KPI, the software automatically assigns certain, you know learnings to them. If they don't actually do well in that also, then it is allocated to a trainer. So at least that much part, you've got it aligned with it, but let's see, it's just the beginning.

Shivangi: L& D is definitely one of the, it's going to be like a game changer, you know, going forward. 

Preeti: It's already started with all the virtual trainings and recordings and all, but huge, huge change in L& D. 

Shivangi: Because if you don't want AI to take your job, you need to upskill, right? And to be upskilling, you need to be at the top of your game.

Preeti: Absolutely. 

Shivangi: But this does put into focus You know having HRs investing in AI tools or looking out for investing in such tools, it does put a lot of focus on how much productivity is being measured and you know, the, how it's focused of the, of the organization right now, right? Like there's a lot of focus on employee productivity.

Shivangi: There's, there's just so much happening in that area where someone is to be like two X and three X their productivity. Like, what are you doing to, you know, bump that up at Wellness? 

Preeti: So, see, I think the first thing, and especially at Wellness, like I'm saying, you know, we are scattered in 400 different locations.

Preeti: So, aligning everybody towards the organization's vision and goal. And I'm very happy to share, you know, one of our promoters is a person who wants to, you know, take this company to the next digital level in, he only talks digital and he, you know, calls us digital illiterates at times and you guys don't understand how technology works and he is very interested into technology and he's always thinking about how best we can utilize AI or any other things and, you know, get these things rolling faster and faster with Lesser and lesser human interaction, but also he believes in human interaction.

Preeti: But yes, like I said, you know, aligning everybody towards what the company's vision and goal is at when they are scattered at so many locations is one tough task. But that is where we are working right now so that the productivity increases of everybody. Also, we've used a lot of, like I said, you know through our learning systems, lot of learnings, which are self paced.

Preeti: Which are automatically assigned to them basis their KPI meters. 

Preeti: So 

Preeti: if I'm falling short in customer satisfaction, you know, scores. Automatically a customer service related, you know, level one, level two, level three will be assigned to that person. 

Preeti: So this is how we 

Preeti: are using technology and trying to increase the productivity, not assigning, you know, one trader over there in spite of doing all that.

Preeti: So that is one thing we're doing then a lot of projects that we do, which are cross functional and trying to, you know, let people see, there are two things. One, you increase the salary. Second, you keep them learning and learning is what actually motivates people to stay. At least it happens with me and people that I know around.

Preeti: That is the one engagement we have. So we try and give them more and more roles. And especially in wellness, we have 99 percent people who have, who are hired internally. So we have a store manager program. We have an area manager program. We have territory manager programs. All are internal people who have moved up.

Preeti: Lateral moves, right? Yes. Lateral, no. Internal moves. So somebody joins at the store level as a pharmacist. The person stays with us, then the person is qualified for the next level of a store manager. So there's a program of one month that we've designed, which includes, you know, everything, virtual and in person trainings and all, and the person moves up.

Preeti: So that is one kind of motivation that keeps us and keeps the people motivated to give maximum productivity because they know, yaha pe mera growth hai, you know, and it's possible because the company doesn't hire from outside. So that is one very interesting part that we have a lot of learning interventions.

Shivangi: That's a great initiative. I think if companies started implementing that, they wouldn't have to look outward for talent, especially with like so many of people, so many people in one organization. So it should be easier to do it. I know it's tough at this point, but it should be easier. 

Preeti: No, that's why I said, you know, normal retail, they have 100 percent plus attrition, but our attrition still sits at 50%.

Preeti: Though I feel it is. But if I compare to other retail competitors that I have, I think we are doing very well with all these learning interventions. 

Shivangi: I'm sure you're doing something right. And you know, the attrition is like literally halved. That's a big feat on its own. 

Preeti: Yeah. Thank 

Preeti: you. 

Shivangi: But besides you know like just upscaling people and also by the way it kind of reminds me of one report that we published a couple of years back with Amber data right?

Shivangi: Like we have about 1 million chats and yeah. Yeah, so So we published a report where it was titled, what do employees want, what do they really want? And top two things that came out is like, you know, obviously that everyone wants money. Who doesn't like money, right? Like now look, what do you want? So they said that most people said you know, career growth.

Shivangi: And learning. And I just feel like learning never goes out of fashion. 

Preeti: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think, and even in my whole career, what I have looked at is what I'm getting is learning because, you know, roles, the designations remain same for years. But then what are you learning over there? Like this job, I learned.

Preeti: Great amount of, you know, retail because in IT, for example departments like warehousing or, you know SCM, they don't exist in IT. This is something very new in retail. So you keep learning. 

Shivangi: Right. So since you're a part of retail and you know, a lot of your job is to interact with people, do you have to travel a lot?

Preeti: Not really. My team travels though. Okay. I traveled once a quarter. Okay. Okay. 

Shivangi: I can imagine like, I know anyone I see in retail, especially like my husband used to be in retail sales before and he just, Oh, that's crazy. That's 

Preeti: crazy. Yeah. I don't travel that much. I know. 

Shivangi: And he was like, dude, I'm done.

Shivangi: Like, you know, that's why I moved to corporate sales because I, anytime I hear retail, I can just like, imagine people have a lot of stress because of Yes. Yes. But nice. I think your, you know, the cities also that you travel to, which is Mumbai and Pune, are also great cities to be in. Both of them. Yeah.

Shivangi: As it's gone. Shifting gears a little bit Preeti, I wanted to ask you, what are two to three manual tasks in HR as of currently, like as of right now, that if, if automated could save up HRBP bandwidth to a great extent? 

Preeti: One, like I said, you know, if I could get intelligence, what's happening on the ground, then my people don't have to travel so much to get the pulse of the floor, what's happening on those stores.

Preeti: So definitely, if there's something that can tell me the early warning system kind of thing, I would be interested in that. Otherwise we have actually auto, I mean, we have centralized a lot of regular queries and all that come, we have set up a help desk, my last company, we set up a HR chat bot. So these things I think are generally now happening in most of the organizations.

Preeti: But yes, like I said, something that will help me keep a tab of my talent. and the environment that's in these different locations and can give me a laugh that, okay, you know, these things need attention or these things are going well and can be practiced somewhere else. I would love to have something like that.

Shivangi: I can't wait for you to get to know inFeedo Like I'm so excited about it. Everything that you're saying is happening and you know, we're doing it for other companies and I would just like love for us to chat about it. Sure. Staying on the topic of AI we did a survey recently and we found that, you know, 90 percent people don't use AI or they are resistant towards it.

Shivangi: Why are people not adopting AI? Like, is it high, isn't it high time already? 

Preeti: I think it is high time, and the sooner they adapt, the sooner they understand that it is the future it will be easier for them to settle. So like I said, you know, I'm a person who doesn't like that stability, consistency.

Preeti: Every day I need something new. So for me learning about AI and adopting, and I'm just, like I said, I'm just looking forward, what else can I do in technology and AI? But most of the HR professionals, if you see. I think you meant HR professionals, right? Who don't attempt. So most of the HR professionals are scared of getting into tech.

Preeti: I've seen very, very few people in my whole career who are very, very tech savvy in HR. They're generally scared. So, you know, my first not, I cannot say first job. Yeah, but HR first job that was in Bank of New York Mellon, I was hired to streamline everything because everything was paperwork that time.

Preeti: So nothing was on the system also. So my first job itself was getting everything, you know, tech savvy, streamlining things, ensuring everything has a tracker and all. In that time Excel had just started like 20 years back I'm saying. So my first job itself was like that. And since then I am a person who likes technology, technology and what else can be done.

Preeti: How can I improvise everything? But I've seen very few people interested in getting into tech, understanding It just eases your job, right? Most of the people feel that my job will go away. But they don't understand that, you know, there used to be lift men earlier. Now there are very few, right? But it doesn't mean that there's no other opportunity.

Preeti: There are 10, that people have come up with. We didn't have YouTubers that time, right? No influencers that time. Today you have so much of opportunity. So people don't need to be scared of AI, I think. And they just need to be open minded. This is something new. Again, coming to change management, I think that's the word.

Preeti: Change is constant is what people still don't understand. 

Shivangi: And it grows, like your fear to change kind of grows with age, right? Like the more you're solidifying your personality, the more scared you are of change. Okay, this is, it's comfort, like it's got to be with comfort that, okay, this is comfortable. I don't want to move out of my comfort zone.

Shivangi: Yeah. 

Preeti: Yeah, it's human tendency, actually, that once you're in the comfort zone, you really have to shake up. I think universe helps you do that. When you get comfortable, the universe shakes you. They push you. It's always happened to me. 

Shivangi: But fear of tech is a big thing, right? A big, big adoption barrier.

Shivangi: Besides that, Is there anything you know, that's maybe like your CEO, CXO buy in is not coming in or any of those other things that you think? 

Preeti: Of course, like, 

Preeti: you know, initially I mentioned there is a huge generation gap in the people who drive the business because they are of a different generation, right?

Preeti: For them seeing people Touching people, talking to them in person gives them a lot of trust and warmth and assurance that yes, this person is genuine and will do the job. So that is, of course, one big, big barrier that I see in a lot of companies where it is this generational gap. They are not, though they see the data also, okay, still they would want to talk to somebody and whether this data is right.

Preeti: You know, whether it is automated also. So with AI also, they feel like it's just a machine, it won't be able to give perfection. But they don't understand that at least 80 to 90 percent will be able to give correct data. The remaining 10%, of course, you have to use your brain. That's why we are here. Right.

Preeti: To analyze it, find what could be wrong, but most of it can be done that's what I think. 

Shivangi: Nice. So, I mean, 

Shivangi: There 

Shivangi: Nice So I mean fear when computers came in there was a lot of fear when computers came in and people still adapted and they were like, like Oh, no, our jobs are going to go. People are still at like you, you, there's still a job, right? Like it's a, it's a, it's a mindset shift that is happening right now that needs to happen.

Preeti: And people have to learn to change. That's it. If you keep learning, there is no end to you. If you remember HR, initially, it was only for people who used to do pagar management, you know, salaries only, then the personnel department came, then human resources came, now we're getting into people and culture, right?

Preeti: So things have transitioned even in HRRC. And if I would have not, you know, upgraded myself every two years, Probably I would also not be here. And from here also, if I'm not upgrading myself, whether it be AI, whether it be any other technology or whether it be in HR itself, there are so many things like recruitment is all outsourced.

Preeti: I don't need to have that expertise anymore, right? So these things, I need to upgrade. Otherwise, I will be out of job in few years if that, if I don't upgrade. So it's important. 

Shivangi: Yeah. Yeah. I can't do care, right? Like if you can just assign all the manual tasks to a machine, you, you, your time will be a lot more valuable.

Shivangi: And just people. 

Preeti: Yeah, that is very interesting thing that I read the other day. Most innovative people are lazy. Because they always think that how, how you know, can find a shortcut to do certain things. And that's where, you know, they get innovative. So that was very, very interesting for me to read.

Preeti: And then I started observing people and I said, yeah, that's true. You know, most of the innovative people that we see are lady with, they try to find out solutions. So that's another talent people have. 

Shivangi: This is what I tell myself when I'm procrastinating.

Shivangi: But okay, jokes aside which one or two areas you think that AI will, you know, like, facelift completely it will, it's going to have the biggest impact in HR? Like, you know, productivity costs, people, analytics, stuff like that. 

Preeti: Of course. Of course. A lot of things like I just shared, you know I'm really looking forward to like I said, to understand more about it, inFeedo because you said you can do all these things, managing my talent.

Preeti: Because like I said, we have 4, 000, 5, 000 people. Not every manager at the store is equipped to understand how to manage their talent. Many a times I have opportunities for them in my regional offices, which, so I don't want to lose those talent. You know, I, I just want some AI driven thing where the person can go online and look up something that, you know, this is what i'm interested in and this AI helps, you know, communicate with that person.

Preeti: And gives a solution that, okay, you don't need to leave the organization. You have some other place where you can go, you know, these things, if they're automated some way, that'll be like a miracle for us. So I think companies like us who are scattered in so many locations and where not every manager is a manager you know, what we see in ideal or corporate companies, 

Preeti: then 

Preeti: the support is very, very critical.

Shivangi: So besides having like, you know, a lot of stores across the country, do you also have like a feed feed on street employees? Like, you know, people who are out there making sales or like not sitting in offices basically? 

Preeti: No, no, no. But we do have the area managers and territory managers who keep traveling to different locations.

Preeti: Got it. But Got it. No Salesforce on the feed. Yeah. Got it. 

Shivangi: Preeti, you said something about you know, having to manage a generational gap when you implement new tools and that involves convincing your CXO, especially your CFO and your CIO, because those are the two people who are going to give like a strong pushback to adopting new tech.

Shivangi: What are your one to two tips to, you know, convince them? 

Preeti: So I think change management, I feel, you know, over communication is important. Not only communication, because many a times people miss out on communication. So, WIFM is the right thing, I should say. What is in it for me? Everybody is interested in knowing that.

Preeti: If as a change enabler, you can define that and help the person understand, or take their help to define it. Also, so I always believe when you're doing some change management involve everybody who's going to get affected from day one, right? Because if they know why we are doing this change, there's with you from day one.

Preeti: And if they know what is the, what is in it for me at the end of it, they will support you. But if you, many times what happens, like for example, in HR also, people do their own projects, HR ka naya technology lekar aate hain, every department, they try to do something by themselves. I always tell my team that no, who are your stakeholders?

Preeti: Who's going to use that technology? Your employees. have their inputs, because if they are in it together, then only your software implementation or anything that you're trying to make a change in the organization will be successful. You do something by your own. No, I know by people that doesn't help when they are totally involved into the change, then the change management will happen.

Preeti: Otherwise, they will never accept it because they don't know why you're doing this. And there are many, many such examples that I can tell you. Companies have done great initiatives, but when you do the impact analysis, impact is not that way. So for me, any initiative that I take in HR or in my organization, I see what is the impact on my people.

Preeti: If my people are not happy with it, it doesn't give any, any stars to me. 

Shivangi: Right. Impact on people. So you said something Like, you know, a lot of examples do you want to share one where, you know, where you were trying to manage change whether it's in terms of software or in terms of like an organizational change and you help ease people into it.

Preeti: So my first technology, you know, implementation was when I was implementing Taleo. In one of the organizations long back and you know, like I had developed everything on Excel, Google, Excel forms, macros, I was very comfortable. And the team had also become very comfortable, but it was very easy.

Preeti: Just a form comes, you fill in, everything is done in the packet. Then we had this Taleo implementation across the globe. Then we had no option and we had to adopt it. So first change came into me, I had to convince myself, okay, no, this is a good, you know, software and this is global. So any global recruitment is happening.

Preeti: People have me, everything will be managed in one go. So first management change management was here. I adopted it. And then was the biggest challenge. To apply it to another 1, 500 people that were there in the organization that time. And that started with the managers to adopt it, then the people to adopt it.

Preeti: Most importantly, the candidates who came in, because even that time, you know, I'm talking this about 15 years back, people didn't have computers in their house, right? Not everybody. So if you give them a computer to fill the form first, the person might run away that time, you know, or they might be scared.

Preeti: So getting that change look took us six months. For the total adoption and ensuring that even candidate data is going on that. Of course, there were a lot of ups and downs, and then Tlaib was designed for us market where for one job, there are only 10 applications. The place I was working in one day, we used to have 150 walk ins.

Preeti: So they had not developed the, you know, software. So there was change management, both sides. I had to be, of course, adoption over here, but at the global level also, I had to make them understand that India market is totally different. So you need different technology over here or some support if you want this software to run.

Preeti: So that was a very interesting and learning for me with change management actually. 

Shivangi: I 

Shivangi: absolutely love the fact that you said that for an HR person, change management begins with yourself first, and then, you know, for your workforce. What are 

Preeti: some aspects, sorry, sorry, you were saying? No, no. So this, for change management, there's one thing called as DABDA And this is something I'll just say d a b d a. Oh, okay. Got it. Well done. Okay. I'll explain later. Maybe this podcast will be less, but it's the it's the theory which we teach to all the leaders in our organization. And yesterday we had one of our area managers batches graduating out and they all came and spoke to me and she like, Preeti ma'am, the debtor that you taught us, Is something that is going to be a life changing has been a life changing for us because we are applying this in our personal life and professional life.

Preeti: And we now know how to deal with people when we are doing change management, because now they know that whenever you talk about some change, people will first night. So depth D is denial. First thing. So that whole process, life cycle of change management and how human psychology works is DBDA Maybe you can Google it later, otherwise this podcast will be, you know, lost.

Shivangi: That's very interesting, but I would love to know the full form at least. That's very interesting. 

Preeti: Okay. Okay. DABDA is, I'll tell you. I also need to tell you the right thing.

Shivangi: Debtor. 

Preeti: I think 

Shivangi: I found it. Denial, anger, bargaining, 

Preeti: depression, and then you accept. So anytime you tell any change for a person, you know, the person will first deny. Then because they cannot accept it, they get angry. Why this is happening with me? Then they start bargaining. Can this be done? Can we leave out this thing?

Preeti: And when nothing works, then people go in depression. And after that, you know, they feel okay, there's no way out, let's accept it, or they really like it, and they accept it. So that curve, you know, of denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and then acceptance is that every human being goes through. Now, some people can go through this whole chain in a month's time.

Preeti: Some can take six months, some can go in five minutes. Right? So that's the way if you know this, this is awareness again, right? If you're aware that something like this exists. Then you can work through it. So the whole team was so, so grateful yesterday. If I'm doing one thing that you taught us is a life changing thing and we are applying it everywhere.

Shivangi: I was just about to say that, that this goes beyond professional realms. Like it could be applied to almost anything, any decision, any relationship. 

Preeti: And it helps manage relationships so easily because now you're not angry that by this person is in denial of why the person is behaving like this. You will give the person time because you know what the person will come to acceptance.

Preeti: You also have your Google, right? Sorry, we digressed a bit. 

Shivangi: No, no, no, absolutely. This is what, this is the goal of the podcast, right? This is what people hinge on. And this is what's going to be in the previews and the snippets and everything. So all about stories. I love that story. But while we're still on the topic of, you know, having AI tools, I just wanted to get like a quick answer from you on some aspects.

Shivangi: That HR professionals should look at while evaluating AI tool, because obviously it comes with its own set of I 

Preeti: I think a lot is to do with the personal data, right? Whatever, because in India, I don't think we have so much of BI issues, but if you're working with international companies, personal data protection is huge, right?

Preeti: You have a lot of compliance over there. So I think that is one important thing I feel. And What is the potential value that you will get out of it? Plus you have like for us, we have so many systems already in place in the organization. How best the things can be integrated, you know, like we have a sales tool, we have a finance tool, we have an HR tool, we are also implementing now EAP, which is Employee Assistance Program.

Preeti: We'll get some data from there as well. So, and AI tool, I think, we'll have to talk to all of these. You know, give us some output, which will be helpful for us to drive more business productivity and efficiency. That's what I feel, you know, that that intelligence should be there in that particular area.

Shivangi: And especially when companies and employees are both getting more global, there's more global exposure. Privacy and you know, data becomes even more important in this time. All right. I did I think you have to, you have a meeting right after this. So I'm just, I'm going to try to wrap it up as soon as I can.

Shivangi: I just have like two more questions for you. One was not in the script, but I'm just gonna, you know, go out on a limb. But I, I noticed that Wellness Forever opened their second all-women store, like, I think if I'm correct, and that, that makes me very, you know, just happy to know that there are organizations taking, like actually walking the talk when it comes to DE&I initiatives.

Shivangi: So I, I would love to know a little bit from you on, you know, the initiatives that you are doing. 

Shivangi: at Wellness Forever 

Preeti: So it was a very, very tough job, trust me. So the first store that they were putting up, I was not a part of it. But after that I was, I became a part, right? And see the the organization works 24 7 So first of all, security issues, you know, and then people don't believe that women can. run things by themselves. So initial six months, yes, it was very tough. In fact, before starting the store also, we gave all the women security related training as well. So they had three days of workshop with you know a karate champion in Mumbai also.

Preeti: Goa. Goa is the second store that we started. So whole one month was invested into those females, helping them understand, deal with situations where, you know, there could be security issues. There could be some people who might be arrogant and talky who might have come and, you know, some, because it was Goa, again, somebody could drink and come.

Preeti: Could be many cases that would have come. So we actually prepared them for a month's time. You know, for to get used to all these things. So that was a big, big job for all of us to do. But it was interesting. And then, you know, they they work in different shifts. So not all women are ready for that. So we had an existing staff who were very enthusiastic about this whole initiative.

Preeti: So half of the staff was our internal staff. We wanted it to be that way as well. And half of the people came when you want to work, but a fantastic initiative and they're doing great. Yeah. Yeah. They're doing great. And we're trying to give them as much support from all sides and all of us across the organization.

Preeti: I'm very proud of that initiative. 

Shivangi: I'm so super happy. Like this is something that I just read sometime before. Right. And I was like, wow. And especially Goa where most things shut, but Wellness doors are open 24 hours. Is that right? Yeah. And that's, that's a crazy, awesome initiatives. I would love to visit one.

Shivangi: Where's the one in Mumbai?

Shivangi: Run by women? 

Preeti: No, no the one run by women is in Mullund. 

Shivangi: Okay, Mullund, okay. I'll make sure to visit there once at least. 

Preeti: Definitely, definitely. 

Shivangi: Awesome. I'm on to my last question, Preeti. And I know this is already going to be interesting, but I wanted to ask you if there's one piece of advice that you'd like to give to people leaders across India.

Shivangi: What is it? 

Preeti: I think you know, leaders, like I was just sharing this with somebody, my organization only. For me, a leader is a person who sees the best in their team and helps them blossom. Right in their areas. So I think all leaders need to understand this part. Of course, there is delivery and everything, but need to understand if the person is not interested, or doesn't have that will, you have to either get that will into that person.

Preeti: But please understand the person's skill and their happiness. And if you give them something that they love to do, You will also be always successful because they will be successful. So many times leaders tend to forget that, you know, they try to instruct a lot and that kills the creativity and the motivation of their team members.

Preeti: I think if you just give that freedom, but you should have that intelligence to see what is in it that the person is good at and let them blossom. I think that's the job of a leader. 

Shivangi: What a beautiful ending to this podcast because It just encapsulates the role of HR and people's success in just one line.

Preeti: Thank you. Thank you. 

Shivangi: No, thank you Preeti for joining us today. This was an amazing, wholesome podcast. And there's so much, like I've made notes of that I would like, you know, even off work, I would like to talk to you about like, especially the personality tests and the happiness coaching, because I think everyone, everyone needs it a little bit, right.

Shivangi: And everyone is not ready to also accept the fact that they need it. So I would love to have a chat with you about it later on. 

Preeti: Anytime, anytime. And thank you so much for inviting me for this podcast. By the way, this is my first podcast and I really enjoyed talking to you. It's good. I can't, 

Shivangi: I can't believe when it comes out to you and I'll send you the link before publishing it.

Shivangi: I'm sure you're going to love it. 

Preeti: Thank you. Thank you. Let's see. When are you going to publish this? By the way? 

Shivangi: I think sometime around the next, the next couple of weeks. Okay. Do let me know. So I'll 

Preeti: also share it with me. Yes. A 

Shivangi: hundred percent. I will send you for approval only once you approve it and then we'll ship it out.

Preeti: Done. 

Shivangi: Done. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'll just pause the recording. If you could just stay for one second.