Shivangi: Hey everyone. Welcome to the PeopleLed show. I'm your host Shivangi, and today I have with me the incredible Indrani Chatterjee. She's the group CHRO at All Cargo Logistics, which is one of the largest logistics solutions providers in India. Before All Cargo, Indrani was the director of human capital and CPO at PwC. she's worked with big names like Vodafone and PepsiCo. She's also a TEDx speaker. Indrani is particularly passionate about building a culture of innovation, diversity, and trust. Welcome Indrani. Thank you so much for joining us today

Indrani: Thank Thank you, Shivangi 

Shivangi: Such a diverse experience working with people that we have so much to talk about today in terms of employee experience, and engagement strategies, your best practices. But before we get into all of that, I am really curious to know, what do you like to do outside of work?

Indrani: Actually many things. So the best thing that I like is to do. Is to spend time with my daughter. I have a teenage daughter. So that is my biggest passion. You can say that I love spending time with my family, friends, and my daughter. So that's one, that's how I unwind myself. Beyond that, I love reading. I am a voracious reader. I would read everything that is there available anywhere and everywhere. So that's one. I also love listening to music so that also soothes me a lot. So yeah, spending time with family and listening to music and also reading and if I have some more time, I would experiment with my cooking.

Shivangi: Wow, that's, that's, that's very interesting. A lot of juggling around things. Managing a family, a teenage daughter, cooking and reading. I don't know. I wonder how you find the time for all of this.

Shivangi: What are you reading right now, Indrani? 

Indrani: So I'm reading two books. One is You Are the Placebo, And my another go to book always is The Art of War. So I always read and on the art of war. yeah. So actually the book is still with me so this is the book, Art of War. 

Shivangi: Oh, amazing.

Indrani: So if you don't have this book, I strongly recommend that you Read this. It is very, very useful book. 

Shivangi: Definitely. Adding to cart right after this, So I wanted to also ask you one thing you know, we're moving into 2024, a lot has happened in the last couple of years, COVID, great resignations, what, what does 2024 look like for you in terms of your employee experience priorities? 

Indrani: So I think 2024 to me would be a year of consolidation. even the recession, so some of the countries have been badly hit with recession. Some of the industries have been badly hit with the recession, especially the industries which are directly linked with the world economy has been badly impacted with the recession. I think some of us have seen a lot in the last few years. from a, from a corporate point of view, from a personal experience point of view. I think year 2024 is going to be an year of consolidation where things will normalize to a certain extent.but not in the first half. I think after May, June in the H2, I would assume that is going to happen from H2 onwards.

Shivangi: Okay. And that everything that you said also holds true for all industries, including the logistics industries, right?

Indrani: For logistics, definitely. Yes. Some of the industry. Are not badly hit with the recession at this moment. So, for example, your health care, your hospitality, your travel, your financial market they are not yet hit with the recession. Logistics is, yes, they are hit with the recession. I definitely see the curve going upwards for logistics. Some of the industries which are holding well, I think they will continue to hold back because I think the globe globally, the recession will slow down,

Shivangi: But till, you know, the consolidation tone of the year sets in a few months later, till then, what do you advise HR leaders should focus on specifically with respect to employee experience?

Indrani: So I think when the organization is going through this kind of turbulence, I think the role of the HR leader is to, is to, Continue with what they are doing and primarily because I'm sure most of the organization would have now put a freeze on recruitment having said that, as I mentioned that there are industries which are really hiring and hiring in good numbers. There are there are functions which are industry agnostic. So if you are in an industry where you are hit by recession, your, people from finance, people from IT, people from operation, people from HR, and the key talent and the top talent might be at a high risk of attrition because these segment is very industry agnostic. So they might get a job outside of your industry and of your organization. So my recommendation is to have a very, very close Watch on the top talent, help them to groom. This is the right time when things are not happening too much outside. You, you actually look inward, right? And this is the time when you actually look your look inward to your top talent, see how you can groom them, get the house on order so that when the market looks up, you are ready to go out in the market. that's something that I'm going to do, I'm going to spend more time with my top talent, understanding their aspiration, helping them to groom, understanding what can be given to them, so that they can fast track their career, and in that manner, I actually try to retain them. So that I don't lose them in the process. 

Shivangi: That's such a nice way to put it. You know, looking inward, that's such a brilliant piece of advice. Indrani, thank you for that. 

But you know, like right now there is an influx of, or lots of different kinds of employees in the workforce, right? There is, there is the millennials. There is, there are Gen Z's entering the workforce. Lots of different employees lots of expectations on the table, but what, what does the employee of today really want? 

Indrani: I think at the core, every human would need a few things and from the corporate world, I think they need recognition of their work, they want to feel valued, and then they need they need experiences which would add to their professional kitty. So that they can grow in their life. So I think that is at the core and at the base level, irrespective of what generation you are talking about, because even in my organization, I am, I am handling a multi generational workforce where I have baby boomers, I have people who have retired and are on retainership with me, and I have the Gen Z straight out of campuses and then everything in between. the difference that I find amongst multiple generation and more so for the for the current generation. I think this current generation is much more focused than what I have seen in the past. And The whole thing of getting everything right away and, having the problem of here and now is very much predominant with the Gen Z. I have not seen in this much urgency with Baby Boomers or the Gen Ys or some other generation which are already in the workforce. Okay. So most of them don't even want to contribute in the provident fund. So, so this was like 10 years back also, someone who would join me would always talk about problem plan, would always talk about gratuities, but today's generation, they don't do that. They say that I need the money. I will do my financial planning. So they want to take everything in, in their control, which is good. Very focused. And they have got, they're very open and very innovative. So if this is not working, they are very, very open to explore some other avenues of their profession.But the flip side is, I see this generation much more stressed out. I see a lot of competition. I see the, the Instagram culture has put them in a situation where they are extremely competitive. The social media. The whole social media. I think that has put lot of stress to be the best every time, to look the best, every time to be an achiever, every time that is a little concerning to me. 

Shivangi: Right. That's a couple of very interesting points that you mentioned, one of them being, you know, the fact that they want to continue their search for something more meaningful. And this does remind me of you know, one data point in your article that I'd read it said that, you know, Gen Zs are projected to move every two years. But what are you know, like, how is this changing your people's strategy, like from a strictly HR perspective? 

Indrani: So from a, so when I mentioned that every two years or three years, they are going to change the job or they are going to change their. Profession I feel that they're very restless and this is something that I am. I am noticing and that's how This is something that I feel that's going to happen. So something that I am trying to design within the organization is how instead of them looking out of my organization. Is there a possibility I can provide them with that opportunity within the organization? One of my people's strategy talks about the inter and intra talent mobility. So so someone wants to take a job outside India because I have got so many offices across the globe, 300 offices.So the talent mobility for me is very, very important as a part of my people strategy, which is 

Indrani: aligned to what I just mentioned that if they want to move, I have that platform to help them channelise their passion or channelise their aspiration.

Indrani: Another people's strategy that I have designed for the group is to digitalize and automate as many processes as possible so that the transactions are seamless. And if I am expecting people to fill their goal sheets, do their performance appraisal, I don't expect them to fill manual forms. I expect them to just go to an app or to a system which is very user friendly and do it at the click of a button in the similar way that they ordered their groceries or ordered their electronics or do everything on the e commerce platform at the click of a button. They are used, this generation is used to that kind of services, right? So my strategy, my people's strategies are also aligned in that manner. 

Shivangi: So this is my question to you Indrani. How do you ensure that you create a climate of trust and transparency? You know, within the organization and also just kind of tell them that whatever you say is being heard 

Indrani: It is just walking the talk because I can, I can give 1000 promises but if, say, for example, somebody is raising an issue to to an HR department or to somebody in the leadership team, first of all I think confidentiality is very important. So the confidentiality of the individual and confidentiality of the content that has been raised. So that I'm not throwing the person under the bus. So for example, people are raising certain things and then we are going back and implementing there. It is not only about complaints. It is also about suggestions to make the workplace a better place.

Shivangi: Am I correct in assuming that you prefer the confidential mode of communication of employee feedback over anonymity?

Indrani: Anonymity is good, but I would prefer people to have the confidence in the management come up and speak up for themselves and then be assured that there would not be any fear of consequence. 

Indrani: I don't think the responsibility of driving a culture lies only with HR, because if HR is trying to do something and the larger team is not implementing, then it never works. HR can give that direction because you don't have so many HR people in the organization, right? And it is, it is, it is absolutely the end user's experience and the end user's experience cannot be only with HR. It is with the manager, with the team, with the other leadership people, other functional people, everyone. 

Shivangi: What are some things you do and recommend that, you know, other HR leaders also should do to make managers effective, 

Indrani: So it's very important to have that middle management extremely motivated and make them very relevant with the right kind of projects, providing them with the right exposure so that they are comfortable in connecting with you and not only connecting with you, but they also see a value in the connection because. They see that their portfolio is getting enhanced. Making them part of some critical decisions where they can just sit and observe how decisions are being made will actually help them in grooming themselves and preparing them for the larger roles A majority of the learning happens While they are on the job, they are listening to the leaders. They are sitting in the review meetings. Understanding how things are being questioned. What are the things that needs to be done? That's how the learning happens. So when I talk about the. Grooming the middle management. I think it is primarily on the job. 

Shivangi: Very interesting. 

Indrani: I provide them with challenging assignments, provide them, push them out of their comfort zone and allow them to fly. They may, they may not be successful. But if you are a good mentor and if you provide them with all the arms and ammunition, they will definitely apply sometime.

Shivangi: My seniors have put in tremendous trust in my capabilities, even though I wouldn't have put in so much of trust at that time on myself, but my seniors have really helped me to be where I am today. 

Shivangi: How beautifully put and I you know, like having someone in your corner and especially if they are your mentor at the company that you're working with it, I think it's one of the biggest support systems that any new employee or even an old employee would ask for. I'm just going to shift gears a little bit here Indrani and I want a quick short answer from you on how you're keeping your attrition numbers in check right now for, especially for top talent, because I know that's, that's a priority for you. 

Indrani: So my attrition numbers are pretty healthy and in last few years, I didn't have to worry about my attrition, especially for my top talent.

Shivangi: We have the liberty of moving people from one assignment to another. We have the liberty of providing people with international exposure.

Indrani: so I'm not very worried about losing my top talent because they grow very fast in the organization. They have, they have encountered both vertical growth and horizonal growth because horizonal growth is also very important right? 

Indrani: Second, I think is with the connect. So we do have a very, very strong open door policy where anybody can walk into anybody's chamber, including ourselves. So that connect with, with the workforce is very important 

Indrani: We think that the engagement is about the fluffy things that HR does. The festival celebrations of the birthday celebration, but those are just fun at work. I think the thing that keeps an employee to the organization is not the birthday cake or not the Diwali celebration. I think it is whether your professional acumen is actually honored. You are being heard, you are being valued, and you see a growth in the organization. That's where an employee would like to stay with the organization. 

Shivangi: Yes. 

Indrani: They will not. And increase your engagement scores. Your engagement scores will start the employee feeling engaged through proper coaching, mentoring, and adding value to their professional achievement. 

Shivangi: with specific respect to, you know new higher retention, is there, is there a strategy you have in place for that? 

Indrani: it is called infant attrition. So my infant attrition is again, pretty healthy. I don't lose new joiners that much. And I don't lose the new joiners that much because. I am not on, platform where I would do real fancy stuff from day one, and then it will fizzle down in day 30. It doesn't happen that way. 

Indrani: Now, you might be thinking, Oh, my God, Indrani is sitting in an environment that doesn't exist. So, of course, I do have my attrition. I do have my people challenges, but those are very, very localized. Say, for example, a particular department, I would find that the attrition is very high. When I blend it in the organization, then it comes to a healthy number.

Indrani: If there is one piece of advice that you can give to budding CHROs, what is that going to be? Oh yeah, yeah, 

Shivangi: yeah. 

Shivangi: you have to be very self motivated. To be in an HR profession for a long time, and the reason why I say that, because everybody in the organization will come to you and say my boss sucks, but you cannot go back and say, you know what, even my boss sucks. So, so that is something that, that differentiates. The HR from the rest of the organization. Wow. This, this is exactly what 24 years of experience in human and people capital actually looks like, like this is the summation of it. 

Indrani: Because you have to, you have to absorb all the negativity of the organization and you have to give the positivity. So even at the, at the worst of moments, when you are standing in front of your people, You have to motivate them. You have to give them the positivity because if you are not motivated, if you are not showing the positivity, if you are not actually giving them the confidence, then the whole workforce will go down and the morale will go down. So come what may, whatever happens in your life, professionally and personally, you have to show up and show up in a very positive mood.

Shivangi: Beautifully said, beautiful ending to this podcast. And, and you know, even if 2020 to 2023 was the year of getting hr the seat at the table, I hope 2024 is the year where, you know, HR gets its due respect and recognition and the love from the entire company that they truly deserve. And I promise to work in that direction with you. For sure. Yeah. 

Indrani: Thank you so much, shivangi. Wonderful. Interacting with you. All the best. 

Shivangi: Thank you. Thank you, Indrani.