Pawan Rochwani: It will be no exaggeration to say that my today's guest wears multiple hats in order to scale his organization to ambitious goals and help the organization achieve all those ambitious goals. Hello, everyone. Welcome to People led Show by inFeedo, where I am interviewing CHROs from Southeast Asia region. My name is Pawan Rochwani. And today on the show, I have John, who's currently the head of organizational development, talent management, culture, engagement and communications at JG Summit Holdings.

Pawan Rochwani: I'm sure if you are from the Philippines or the Southeast Asia region, you must have heard of JG Summit or also about John. And he's somebody who wears multiple hats at the organization, and he's someone who doesn't just understand the intricacies of the HR function, but also excels in talent management strategies, the nuances of shaping workplace culture and the art of fostering engagement and effective communication, and at the same time, creating a psychological safe space for all the employees. This is a conversation that have been really looking forward to and I'm so glad that John gave us his time for this recording. And I hope all of you who are going to listen to this and watch this will enjoy this equally. Please feel free to drop any comments, and we'd be happy to take your suggestions.

Pawan Rochwani: And this conversation was prerecorded, so some of the context from the episode might be of the month of December 20 23. But I hope you all enjoy this. Superb. Thank you so much, John, for taking out the time to do this conversation with us. We are very, very thrilled and excited to have you on our show. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. 

John Calica: Mhmm. I'm very happy to be here. So, yeah, let's let's do this.

Pawan Rochwani: John, so to begin with of course, we're gonna talk a lot about the HR division and, you know, how the industry is shaping up, What are the challenges that are going on and everything? But before we get into all of those things we also want to know who is John outside of work, and What are you doing when you're not at the office or when you're not thinking about your employees? What are you doing outside of work?

John Calica: Yeah. So I'm I'm married, and I have 1 child. She's 2 years old. So majority of my time is actually spent, you know, with with my little girl. So we always, you know, on weekends, try to find time to bond.

John Calica: So we go to zoos. We go to parks. We go to, you know, amusement parks. Just anything that, you know, would allow us to spend a lot of time together. So, yeah I'm fairly simple guy.

John Calica: I mean, I don't I don't really do much outside of work except, you know, spend spend time with my family. 

Pawan Rochwani: That that's also equally important, so that's definitely great. How about why don't we start with you describing the People's strategy of GT Summit. Like, what what is the vision or what is your mantra or motto that you follow as a people strategy at the organization. 

John Calica: Yeah.

John Calica: So for the whole of Gohongwei group we have a twofold people strategy. We want to be able to deliver exceptional employee experience while building the org of the future. So it sounds deceptively simple, but it's actually such a tall order for all of us because, You know it's so easy to get caught up in all of these latest trends, latest technologies that you could forget, you know, the basics. So we always have to ensure that the basics are the ones that impact the employee experience the most. So we need to be able to cover that in a very, very good way.

Pawan Rochwani: Yeah. Yeah. No. No. Definitely.

Pawan Rochwani: It sounds simple to hear, but Executing that in thousands of employees is really, you know, execution challenge sometimes. So I definitely understand That it might sound simple, but it's really, really deep. And, you know, a lot of times when we are following these mottos and missions there is a challenge, and I have also I've been an entrepreneur, so I've faced this myself sometimes is you know, how do you strike the balance between, okay, you wanna set high performing employees and high expectations. But at the same time, you also want to be supportive and create that safe space environment as well. Like, somebody shouldn't feel like, okay.

Pawan Rochwani: But this is too much of burnout for me and too much of work for me. So how how can you how do you balance, like, the high performance as well as being supportive as a leader. 

John Calica: Yeah. So the first thing you need to do is understand the dynamics of how an individual and teams operate within a system. And, you know, how processes, policies, Season systems can impact performance and motivation.

John Calica: So once you understand that, you can design a performance culture that motivates People to do their best work while allowing them to bring their whole selves at work every day. So if I were to maybe illustrate it for you. If you can recall a time when you felt like you were at your peak performance. So what were the key driving factors? Was it the clarity of goals?

John Calica: Was it having a supportive boss and team? Was it, you know, being in a space where you felt like you belonged? So in my experience, you always design with the individual in mind knowing that, you know, each individual has different motivation, you know, Has different triggers as well, and then curate experiences and systems around the individual that will enable peak performance. 

Pawan Rochwani: Yeah. Yeah.

Pawan Rochwani: Okay. That makes sense. And, you know, just just out of curiosity, you have been in the business for quite some time. And you know, what is what is some of the ways that you have achieved success with respect to employee engagement and, you know, bringing that business effectiveness through people. Like I'm sure being flexible as a work culture, as a environment, all of those things are now, like, the basics and the new normal.

Pawan Rochwani: But what have been some things that are like your success mantras for great employee engagement? 

John Calica: Yeah. So first things first you need to understand how money is made in an organization. Yeah. So for you to be able to drive organizational effectiveness, you need to know how the money is made.

John Calica: You don't necessarily have to be, like, a finance expert or, like, be the operations expert, but you need to understand, you know, how The money moves within the organization. Once you have a good understanding of that, you know exactly how you can enable that through your people initiatives. And and, of course, listening to the people is always very important. And like what I've said earlier, you need to be brilliant at the basics. You need to be very valid at the basics, but you need to also you need to remain open to new ways of approaching old problems.

John Calica: Yeah. Because sometimes, you know, you you you just throw, let's say more people to a problem or throw A pizza party because, you know, engagement scores are lower and stuff like that. I mean there has to be a level of openness to approach Old problems with, you know, new and innovative ways. But, you know, don't forget to have fun as well. I mean, it's such a cliche, but when you don't really have fun at work, I I mean, it's it's gonna be such a burden, you know, going to work and spending, like, at least 8 hours a day in a workplace where That sucks the life out of you, basically.

Pawan Rochwani: Yeah. Yeah. No. Definitely. I think getting those basics right and having that fun with work is also very, very equally important.

Pawan Rochwani: And I think 1 thing that has worked Outwell for me in the past has been a lot of times an employee would, you know, come and just give me feedback about How about we change this thing instead of instead of making it like Monday blues why don't we make it like Mondays are for fun? And I think Those are small, small feedbacks sometime changed a lot about our culture. But have you also Experience this that some small feedbacks can really, you know, change and improve the culture of the org or make your org very people centered. How do you, like, look at feedback in central? 

John Calica: Yeah.

John Calica: So most organizations have very traditional ways of gathering feedback. Right? You do town halls, you do Your engagement surveys, and you do all of these things. But what I've also found to be impactful It's just talking to people, you know, without any sort of agenda. You know, just checking in people making sure that, you know, You you communicate to them that you want to get to know them as individuals, and that's when the magic happens most of the time.

John Calica: We have to understand people's motivation beyond, you know, the day to day work. Because, I mean, the premise is that nobody goes to work and says, I I'm gonna do a bad job today. Nobody ever does that. Right? Everybody, you know, wakes up, goes to work, and and Has, you know, at least a fundamental objective to deliver what they're supposed to deliver that day.

John Calica: But then people are not machines. And, you know, having worked For more than 2 decades already, I've also realized that in a while, it's such a cliche to say you need to know your people. You need to empathize with people. You need to make people feel that, you know, you're you're not dealing them, you know, like machines. And Yeah.

John Calica: And it's always always a game changer for me when you're able to be or you're able to foster, Like a constant feedback loop with people, whether it be in terms of, you know, the formal channels that you currently have or just having, you know water cooler conversations or your regular 1 and wants with your teams as well. 

Pawan Rochwani: Yeah. Yeah. I think water cooler conversations I have personally enjoyed. Like, it's it's just a candid way to know what's going on in their lives and just build a friendly rapport, so I'm not just keep always that hierarchy within the culture that, okay.

Pawan Rochwani: No. I am a director and you are a manager and stuff like that. So I think those things are really important. 

John Calica: But but there's just another thing that I wanted to highlight because I've worked in A European multinational as well. And that's when I realized that you also have to, you know, Assess the level of familiarity that you can establish with your workmates.

John Calica: Oh, yeah. Some people are not comfortable, you know, discussing, you know, personal their personal lives. Some people apparently don't wanna be greeted on their birthday because it's such, you know, an emotionally loaded event. Other people don't want, you know, to celebrate holidays and stuff like that. So it's really also about having that Intelligence about how to facilitate conversations in a matter that is always, A positive for, you know, the individuals that you're interacting with.

John Calica: Yeah. Because I was just having this conversation with a friend, and this particular friend was telling me that, you know they were asking about how the weekend was like for this, you know workmate was from a different culture, and and the workmate was super surprised. Why are you asking me that question? I mean, Why do you wanna know what I did over the weekend? Oh.

John Calica: And and that's, like, super common for Asians. You know, we We normally start our Monday meetings with a question like, how was your weekend? What did you do during the week? But but you'd never realized that, you know, it could be such a sensitive topic For other people. 

Pawan Rochwani: Yeah.

Pawan Rochwani: Yeah. Glad I I learned this today. Anytime I'm meeting a European colleague, I'm not gonna ask them how their weekend was. So Definitely gonna keep that in mind. John, tell us a little bit about how your team is structured and, you know, like, What are certain goals that you folks are deciding for 20 24?

Pawan Rochwani: Are you trying to think about I'm sure everybody is now thinking about adopting AI and automations and all those things, but how's your team structured and what you folks are planning for the next year? So I work for the holdings company of the Gohumui Group. And so our clients are the employees in the corporate center units And the HR teams across the group as well. So 1 of our key mandates in In 20 24 and even beyond is to start developing our consulting practice at the center. So Another would be this drive to build thought leadership at the center.

John Calica: So thought leadership will be as simple as, you know, knowledge management, And I'm just making sure that all the different HR teams across the group have access to, let's say, a centralized catalog of all the learning interventions that we have. To us, complex us, really pushing new trends, new ways of thinking and working so that, you know, our different businesses who are at different stages of, you know, maturity as organizations could really benefit from the the knowledge base that we have within the group. 

Pawan Rochwani: Yeah. Got it. And coming to do my to my last section of questions, and this is more about just some futuristic aspects and also what do you think about the industry in general.

Pawan Rochwani: The first question being what What what do you think makes a great people leader and a great HR leader? Are there certain traits or, let's say, skills That are, like, must haves according to you. Mhmm. Well, for me, a great HR leader or any leader for that matter Knows how to support, number 1, the delivery of business goals. Mhmm.

John Calica: A leader of needs to listen to the organization And has the capability to inspire people to deliver the best work of their lives. So it sounds like a lot of, you know, fluffy statements, but, Really, if you think about it for you to be able to support the delivery of business goals, you need to understand, you know, the ins and outs of the business. When you listen to the organization, you need to have that level of authenticity that you really want to know what people need and are Sincere about creating meaningful solutions for them. And finally, being an inspiring leader takes a lot of work. You need to work on your authenticity.

John Calica: You need to work on your, you know, personal effectiveness as well. And more importantly, you need to make sure that you put People first. I've been trying my best to be a servant leader, meaning lead, you know, alongside my people because I grew up in a generation wherein leaders are revered and, you know, are leading from the front, leading the charge. But then I've also, you know, noticed that, you know, working with the new generation of professionals 1 way to truly inspire and engage them is that you make them feel that you are with them and that you're not just giving commands and you're not Just, you know, asking them or telling them what they're supposed to do. You are actually going to be there when you need to get your hands dirty.

John Calica: You need to get your you know, Roll up your sleeves and do the journey work as needed. 

Pawan Rochwani: Yeah. And I think that generational diversity, we'll have to embrace it in the coming years because I remember I read this article. I think it was in New York Times or The Atlantic where it talked about How to keep our offices ready for the Gen z. And it talked about what workplace changes we will have to bring in because it's really different from what, let's say, the millennials or the Genex and all those folks have have been.

Pawan Rochwani: So that's an interesting piece that I had also read. Yeah. Yeah. 

John Calica: Yeah. I was just attending a workshop a few months ago with A whole bunch of leaders within the GoFundMei group.

John Calica: And we had a session with the consulting firm where they brought Some Gen z's to talk with us, you know, some of the top leaders of the organization. And we were able to ask them a lot of questions around, you know, their motivation and Had the opportunity to get them to dispel some of the preconceived notions that we had of, you know, gen z's such as They are loyal to themselves and not to a company. They're loyal to their own development and all these things. And it was so insightful because At the end of the day, what what I personally realize is the fact that while there are some generational stereotypes, You still need to ensure that, you know, you look at people as individuals, you know, with different senses, with, you know, different motivations and really Different ways of thinking and working. And so while we need to be aware of, you know, some of these generalized stereotypes about Gen z's it all boils down to just, you know, making sure that you design with the individual in mind and, you know, also employing concepts of design thinking.

John Calica: Always thinking about the edge customers, edge users, or whatever it is that you push both from an HR standpoint or, you know, how you will design your policies and processes. 

Pawan Rochwani: Yeah. Yeah. No. Definitely.

Pawan Rochwani: I think there have been very interesting cases and theories about how to adapt the the generational diversity. And I have also been attending a lot of sessions virtually and in person as well. And I think it's it's a very interesting trend that's gonna come up, and It's I'm very excited to see how organizations are going to adapt to that because now literally we'll have 3 different generations working together, 3 or 4, actually. Right. That's definitely a very exciting thing to, like, witness.

Pawan Rochwani: John, what what do you think are some, let's say, philosophies or you know, methods that you have as an HR leader that probably other people don't agree with you or they have, You know, counter thoughts about it. What are some of such philosophies or methods that you have? 

John Calica: So I did think about this after reading the question that you sent over. And there are 2 things I wanted to highlight. Most HR teams measure attrition and measure engagement and have pegged this as very good predictors of, you know, Successful initiatives around retention, motivation, and engagement.

John Calica: But I personally don't Believe that attrition is a bad thing. With how the Workplace has evolved over the past decades. Attrition should not be vilified in such a way that, you know, Of course, it's a different thing when attrition is really caused by poor management or poor culture. But when it's all about, you know, people just trying to pursue their purpose in life and, you know, trying to find the best places where they can thrive in. I I don't necessarily think that, you know, attrition is a bad thing.

John Calica: All the school you have to keep in mind that some economies are more active than others. So for example, in the Philippines and in other parts of Asia, A lot of startups keep on coming. Businesses keep on expanding, and it really becomes an employee centric economy. So attrition now becomes a bit of an outdated measure to to To say whether or not you're doing a great job at, you know, motivating your employees. The other thing is, you know, engagement scores.

John Calica: And a lot of people have been, You know, saying this thing as well. I mean, once a year, engagement surveys don't really do much. I mean and they don't really say a lot. And so in our organization, the goal is to be able to truly identify moments that matter By listening to the employees at all the different stages of the talent management life cycle. Getting, you know, real time feedback whenever you onboard somebody, Whenever you provide a particular HR service or, you know, just after every event or initiative, you you Institutionalize a way of listening and getting real time feedback so that, you know, even the smallest feedback could help you, you know, pivot in a manner that is quite meaningful and thankful to the employees in your organization.

John Calica: So yeah. Yeah. 

Pawan Rochwani: Yeah. No.  I was just thinking about my time as well.

Pawan Rochwani: So the very first job that I During my life it was no fault of the management or anybody. I I just wanted to pursue something of my own, And that attrition is probably not the reason of the organization. It's just my own purpose that I wanted to fulfill. So I definitely agree that sometimes attrition is looked up as like, mislooked, actually because People can have their own reasons as well sometimes. So I'm glad that, you know, that's that's a that's a very good and actually, I'm glad that's that's coming out in this conversation, so I'm really happy about that.

Pawan Rochwani: My last question, and I've I would have loved to Keep talking to you more, but maybe we'll do a part 2 or some other time when when I'm in Philippines. Who are some of the organizations that you have, like or some CHROs or HR leaders from Philippines that you personally have, like, admired or or that, okay, these guys are doing, like, really well. This organization is really people centric and people first that you have, like, noticed and observed. 

John Calica: Okay. So Not necessarily just in the Philippines, but I would say Grab is a pretty, you know, people centric organization.

John Calica: Inclusion is in their DNA for sure. So the way they design the business is really to be able to solve everyday problems that, you know, Asian space. And and so even in the people strategy of Grab it's it's it shows that it's as people centric as it could be. Yeah. Another organization that's quite people centric, I'll beat in a different manner or in a more traditional manner is San Miguel Corporation.

John Calica: I mean, it's The biggest corporations in Asia Pacific they've celebrated, you know, more than a hundred years Yeah. Of success. And they've also done a lot of pivots. They've bought companies. They've sold these companies.

John Calica: They've devolved functions to their business units and have centralized functions as well so many times that, you know, I think they've How to, you know, build a brand loyalty, how to build org affinity without having to, you know, Do so many different things at the same time, if you if you know what I mean. So Sanjay is quite a good organization as well. And then I'll be I'll be biased and say my boss It's actually a good example of how, you know, somebody who hasn't been in HR his whole life it has been to become, you know, the chief HR officer of JG Summit Holdings. And it's really introducing new ways of Looking at the function. He he's, you know, leading the charge around us evolving into a consulting organization and, You know, a soft leader and so many ways than 1 so that we could serve our business units in a meaningful manner.

Pawan Rochwani: Yeah. Yeah. No. I'm glad and and I've also personally not not as an employee, but as a customer, definitely Grab has been like, a very people centric and customer centric organization. I've I've personally felt that.

Pawan Rochwani: But I'm glad we we talked about this. And, John, I want to thank you once again for giving us your time and doing this conversation. And, you know, sometimes you don't realize where half an hour has passed by because as it's been a great conversation. So I'm really, really happy that we managed to do this. And Right.

Pawan Rochwani: Next time I'm definitely in Manila or you're in India, We'll we'll meet up in person. 

John Calica: For sure. That'll be great. I mean thanks as well for allowing me to have this conversation with you. It It was a great exercise for me.

John Calica: I've I haven't been granting you know, interview requests And and the and the likes because I've been quite busy. And I really felt like, you know, it was it was too cheesy for me. But then, you know, having this conversation, you know, the preparation that leading to it and, you know, me a lot giving myself time to reflect on Who I am as a leader and what I've seen to, you know to be effective in in boosting art effectiveness. So it was a good experience for me as well. I mean, If it could help 1 or 2 HR practitioners out there, you know, I'll  feel very fulfilled that, you know, I've done.

John Calica: Agreed. It'll be the very simple thing. 

Pawan Rochwani: I'm sure not 1 or 2 HR leaders, but hundreds of them are going to benefit from this conversation. I am and I'm damn sure about that. But thank you so much once again, John.

Pawan Rochwani: I think I thoroughly enjoyed this as well. And, yes, probably in person coffee is pending for us the next time whenever we meet. 

John Calica: For sure. Thanks, Pawan.