Shivangi: Hey everyone, welcome to the people that show. I'm your host Shivangi and today I have with me the incredible Manjul Tilak. He's the CHRO for financial services and realty at Piramal Enterprises Limited. Manjul has over 27 years of experience in the HR industry. He started his career working for Triveni Engineering before moving on to Kotak Mahindra Bank at Piramal Enterprises.

Shivangi: Manjul is directly responsible for shaping and driving people's agenda while also addressing HR priorities at the enterprise level. Welcome Manjul. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Manjul: Thank you, Shivangi. Thanks for the opportunity. 

Shivangi: Okay. So, Manjul, this is something that I ask all HR leaders you know, when we start off.

Shivangi: What do you like beyond nine to five? 

Manjul: So typically Shivangi I'm a little bit into fitness.

Manjul: Yes. So running is one of the stress busters you know, we were, we had a group of friends who kind of, you know, goes running on the weekends. The second stress buster I have is that, you know we had a group of people who like to jam, you know, we get together, jam you know, and there's a, there's a fairly active group that I'm a part of, you know, which is into jamming, singing, et cetera.

Manjul: So these are the two stress busters for me.

Shivangi: Alright. Manju you know, as a CHRO for one of the biggest companies, I think everyone in the nation wants to know, what are your two to three major responsibilities on your agenda points?

Manjul: So I think you know, as the CHRO of Piramal Enterprises my primary role is to make sure that we are not just present-ready but also future-ready and the future-ready in terms of skills, but more important, the mindsets.

Manjul: Yeah. So making sure that, you know, we are able to make sense of what is happening in the environment. And, you know, add a time horizon to it. I think these are, you know, a couple of my priorities at this point in time. 

Shivangi: So I would love for you to elaborate a little bit more on you know, getting the workforce future ready in terms of skill.

Manjul: Yeah. So you know that AI is kind of coming in, for example, in a big way, right? Okay. Now, one response to Gen AI could be that, you know, there's a select few people who are you know, privy to what Gen AI can do, which is the data people, the product people you know, and, and the strategy people, for example but I think the real you know, benefit of Gen AI will happen when people at the ground are, are sensitive and are fully aware of what Gen AI can do.

Manjul: That is where a lot of use cases will come in and that is where and how the organizations will benefit. So I think one of the things that, you know, we are looking at in a big way is how Gen AI is going to be impacting the organizations going ahead. 

Shivangi: Okay. I love that thought. 

Shivangi: what are some things that you focus on when it comes to your employee experience at Piramid Enterprises?

Manjul: Okay. So what I tell my team is Shivangi that, you know, employee experience happens in two ways.

Manjul: Okay. It could happen in two ways. The one is the default way that, you know, something is happening by itself. And the second thing, second you know, way is that you make it happen. Right. And when you're talking about making it happen, I think that is when a conscious concerted sort of an effort goes into actually see how the employees are experiencing what you have to experience.

Manjul: Yeah. So I think you know one thing that companies need to focus on is how to make the employee experience happen rather than employee experience happening by default. 

Shivangi: More of an active approach than, you know, like, that is, that 

Shivangi: However, does that tie into, you know, certain employee experience challenges that you've been facing in the last couple of years,

Manjul: I think the two things that are, that are defining you know, the way employee experience should be happening are one, you know, you know about hyper personalization. Yeah. So n is equal to one. You know, I think the, the big question that, that we are facing at this point in time, and that is something that we are trying to work towards.

Manjul: Is how do we, you know, try to understand an employee his or her requirements and then cater our plans according to that, the needs of that employee. I think that is one of the big things in, in employee experience that, you know, we will see in the times to come. And of course, the second part typically is on, you know, that the employee or the organization intends that the employee should be experiencing the various touch points in a particular way.

Manjul: But what is actually going on in the employee's minds? You know, I think that is, you know, a question that we need, you know, an answer to. And the, the, the minuter or the finer the answer that we get or, or the nuances, if you're able to pick up on that particular question, I think we'll be able to do much better on employee experience.

Manjul: That's very brilliantly said. 

Shivangi: I especially like the part where you said that, you know, understanding your employees and, you know, what is going on in their minds. So what is like in your, in the last couple of years, what is actually happening, what's going on in the employees mind, 

Manjul: So Shivangi, I'd like to answer this question by taking, you know, the examples of what the employees are nowadays exposed to. Most of our employees, you know, you know, are, are exposed to Swiggy. They're exposed, exposed to Zomato. They're exposed to Amazon. They're exposed to Flipkart. And when, you know, there's a particular customer experience that all these companies give our employees.

Manjul: Why should we think that that the employees are expecting anything less from their organizations? Yeah, so I think the big challenge for us right now is that, you know, employees are asking for things which are extremely user friendly, they are nudge based, they are giving them solutions, and they are, you know, telling them many other things.

Manjul: Yeah, so I think that is the, the, you know, expectations or the challenges that we are facing, you know, in terms of the expectations of the employees from us. 

Shivangi: I think this is one of those answers where you know, a lot of people will be able to relate to,

Shivangi: You mentioned that employees have changing expectations according to the things that they've been exposed to, but is there a difference in the kind of expectations different cohorts of employees have, like, you know, I'm specifically looking for what expectations the Gen Z employees have, that's, is there a difference?

Manjul: Of course, of course, you know, I think they would look at convenience, they would look at, you know, any information, not, you know, to go through reams of data. I think they have a pointed question and they want a pointed answer to that question.

Manjul: Yeah, so I think, you know, usability, convenience. You know, they're getting the right sort of an answer there and then without wasting too much time. I think that is, you know, what the Gen Z is, is expecting out of organizations

Manjul: I'm asking you a question about my lead policy. Don't direct me to the entire document that is, you know, expecting me to go through, you know, six pages of talk of the document. Tell me, you know, there's a specific way that I'm asking you, please give me the answer to that specific way. 

Manjul: Is there a difference in that aspect of you know, compensation that Gen Zs are wanting way differently than the other generations did? 

Manjul: I think so. You were to look at you know, the way Gen Zs would expect their for example, their compensation, they would need more disposable income in their hand, right?

Manjul: You know, they would believe less in, you know, some bit of a, you know, retirement sort of a solution. They think that, you know, they're a little too far from it. So therefore, you know, please maximize, you know, what I can take home you know, so that I'm able to put it, to use the way I want to, I would like it to, I would like it to.

Manjul: Yeah, so I think there are these nuances, of course, you know, generation wide more senior population, of course, you know, they would look at not just, you know, what is going into PF, they might have a component of a voluntary PF you know, in which they can, they can increase the size of their retirement fund.

Manjul: Yeah. So different strokes for different people.

Manjul: I wanted to ask you, you know, one very pointed question and your opinion on I think this is a more opinion based question of how do you define culture?

Manjul: the way things get done in a place is, is what defines culture.

Manjul: At Pyramal you know, I think we believe in a culture which is purpose led. So, which means that, you know, our purpose is doing well and doing good. Which means that, you know, there's a strong linkage of our giving back to the society, but the clear understanding is that we'll be able to give back to the society if we as an organization are doing well, right?

Manjul: our values of knowledge, action, care and impact, they are acting as beacons of how the employees are expected to behave in the organization. 

Shivangi: That is great. And in so many years of experience, where have you seen employee experience?

Shivangi: How does that experience or culture you know break the most? Like, you know, what and what insights have you gained from those experiences?

Shivangi: So I think you know, 

Manjul: employee experience breaks when you know, there are quick fix solutions that you are looking at, right? Without looking at, you know, what the impact on the downstream or the upstream of that process is.

Manjul: I'll give you a quick example of, you know, you, the company has a, I have a structured talent management program. I'm talking about any organization. What, you know, as a part of that talent management process, the organization decides that it's important for them to understand what the employees thinking or what the employees aspiring for.

Manjul: So therefore there's a beautiful form that gets designed and it gets inserted in the, in the, you know, in the system that the company is using. Now, you know, the, the employee experience will break that, you know, after one year, for example, when the employee is again sitting for that discussion, there is no access that that employee has to, you know, what the person mentioned the last time.

Manjul: Right. So, you know, one, you know, your intention was pretty good that you inserted a form, but did you think about how, you know, over a period of time, the requirement of this form will, will still be applicable. Yeah. I think the employee experience breaks when you look at a solution in in, in your bid to solve a particular problem.

Manjul: But you know, looking at connecting that thing in the future, I think is always going to be very important. 

Manjul: Shifting gears a little bit, Manjul, I want to go back to something that you had said earlier about, you know, knowing what's going on in your employee's head.

Shivangi: How do you at Pyramid Enterprises in your team keep in touch with what's happening with your employees?

Manjul: So I think there are multiple platforms that we make use of. You know, that includes employee pulse surveys, you know, which are periodic in nature. There are, I think, you know the Pyramid system uses the town hall mechanism very, very well.

Manjul: Right. So, you know, so the consistency with which, you know, our leaders do a town hall, the amount of time they kind of you know utilize or devote to actually understand from employees, That's one, of course, a large group format. You know, there are other mechanisms that we have where leaders kind of interact with people in, with employees in smaller group format.

Manjul: And of course you know, there are cohort based programs like, you know, the new joins, interacting with the local leadership in a period, in a, you know, in a, in a predetermined period of time where they're able to express, you know, how their journey is kind of going on. So multiple platforms that are, that are kind of existing in our scheme of things.

Shivangi: how do you build the kind of trust and ease you know, with the survey process so that people are able to share their most honest feedback with you?

Manjul: So I think you know, and this is something that I've seen over a period of time, Shivangi, that, you know, getting feedback is one of the most important things. Right. But what you do with that feedback and how you close loop with the employees, I think that is something that is the biggest determinant of how much trust people have in these kinds of surveys.

Manjul: You know, I think the most important thing is, you know, getting that feedback and making sure that you're acting on that feedback that is, you know, something that really builds a lot of trust in people close looping with the employees on what we did as a part of that, you know, as a, as a, as a result of the feedback that they gave to us.

Manjul: I think that's one of the most critical parts in doing an employee survey. 

Shivangi: Do you remember when, you know, an employee at some point shared some feedback with you and a prompt action was taken? Is there an experience that you'd like to share with the audience?

Manjul: Yes. So here sh I'll share an experience with you that, you know, this happened in one of my trips to the branches. Okay? so I happened to be at one, one of the branches and, you know, one of the employees said that, sir, the next time you come here, you will not see me.

Manjul: So I asked, I was very curious to know the reason. So she says, and she has been working with us for the last about you know, five, six years. And she said that I'm getting married. I'm moving to Jaipur and this is, this happened in Delhi, by the way. So I'm moving to Jaipur and you know, I will not be able to kind of continue.

Manjul: So I asked her the reason of why, so she said that, you know, I tried for a transfer, but in none of our branches in Jaipur, you know, there is a vacancy. And I was a little perturbed and I, of course, went back to my team and I checked with them

Manjul: And unfortunately, they were actually in the number of branches that we had, there was actually no vacancy. That kind of set us thinking and we said that why not look at, you know, our group companies. Okay. And luckily, you know, after making a few phone calls, you know, to the relevant people, we were able to place her, you know, in, in one of our group companies in Jaipur.

Manjul: And you had a promoter for life. You know, I think a person who's willing to kind of work was not getting an opportunity and couple of things that moved. And we were able to create that for her. I think we created a promoter for life in the, in the, in, in us as a brand. Yeah. And I think that set us thinking that, you know, maybe in the group companies, we needed to have stronger, you know, sort of bridges for our talent as well.

Manjul: So that was a learning, but I think, you know, an immediate feedback resulted in some sort of a delight for the customer. 

Shivangi: That right there is the definition of building trust. 

Shivangi: I'm so thankful for you to, you know, share this experience with us. 

Shivangi: do you prefer a, you know, like an anonymous feedback mechanism or like a confidentiality?

Manjul: So I think Shivangi, rather than splitting here on anonymity or confidentiality, I think, you know, the trust that people should have is that You know that the environment of the organization should be such that they should be able to express themselves freely.

Manjul: Right. And I think that and the fact that, you know, you've acted on that feedback and closed loop with the employees. I think that is a very, very formidable sort of a sort of a combination. I can tell you with experience, Shivangi, by the way, that I've seen in, you know, in surveys that in the verbatim.

Manjul: People are nowadays, this generation is nicely fearless. I've seen names of people in verbatim that I am giving you this feedback. This is what my problem is. And please help me solve it. Right. So there was a generation that believed in anonymity, confidentiality, but you know, the generation that we are dealing with now, I think all full marks to them, they are fearless.

Manjul: They would, you know, wear their heart on their, on their sleeves and they would express quite freely. 

Shivangi: Wow. what are the action steps that you take once the feedback is received? 

Manjul: Right. So I think the regular steps that, you know, once the survey results come in. You know, you are analyzing them in order to reach an actionable, you know, sort of a cohort. That cohort could be a function, that cohort could be a region, that cohort could be a business in a region. So I think a little bit of data churning to actually see what are those various things that we can do and on whom.

Manjul: Right post that I think there are two kinds of actions that you know, are to be taken One is an enterprise level organization. So for example, if there is is a new policy that's required, a new you know policy on inclusion a new policy on let's say a particular employee benefit 

Manjul: So that's an enterprise level action And of course, then there are actions, you know, which have to be taken at a local level, you know, of, of, you know, driving let's say more leadership communication or, you know, the other things that kind of come up. So, you know, the actions will typically be enterprise level actions and, you know, local level kind of actions that you need to take.

Manjul: There is so much data that you probably deal with right?

Shivangi: Do you use an advanced technology like a GI for you know, looking at. Specifically at people 

Manjul: data. So we are, there are a couple of use cases Shivangi that we are toying with right now.

Manjul: You know, I won't say that, you know, we've been able to put that in practice, but I think, yes, you know, we're very actively looking at a couple of, you know, these kinds of things at this point in time. we are hoping that, you know, the benefit of this Should come to us in the next about three to six months, right?

Shivangi: other's you know, like KPIs and people metrics that you actively look out and your team is, you know, reporting almost every single week about 

Manjul: so typically I think, you know, there is an action planning grid that you set up you know, and you know, the progress on those actions you know, is something that we, we monitor.

Manjul: And those actions could be, you know, in terms of the number of, you know, as you leadership communication meetings that have to happen, right? In which format they are supposed to happen. You know, you talk about you know, if there is you know a region saying that, you know, maybe training hasn't really, you know, happened in that particular region.

Manjul: So what are those various actions that the team is taking? So there's a scorecard that we, you know, we are trying to put in place and actively monitor.

Manjul: I have come to understand that managers. Have become sort of the most important people in the organization when you talk about creating employee experience.

Shivangi: Is there some active steps that you take to empower your middle management?

Manjul: Yeah. So I think, you know, one of the strongest messages that we are trying to send Shivangi is that.

Manjul: You know, in any progressive organization where the managers have espoused the HR agenda, I think those are organizations which, which, which will kind of, you know, make leaps and which will grow leaps and bounds. You know, wherever people would have left, you know, the HR agenda to only HR folks, I think that is a place which will, which is struggling right now and which will continue to struggle.

Manjul: Yeah. So which means that how do you bring the effectiveness and the capabilities of the managers up? I think this is One biggest you know, sort of focus areas for us, 

Manjul: So I think, you know, first of all is, you know, empowering them with data, right? So, which means that, you know and it's a, it's a very basic sort of a thing that, you know, if I have a team of people. You know, what is the kind of data I'm able to give to the manager in their ability to nudge performance?

Manjul: What is it that I can do to the managers that the managers are actually talking about inputs and not just monitoring the output? Yeah, so I think, you know, things like, like the ability of the managers to actually, actually make sure that they are able to help the newcomers, the, you know, the, the people on the ground, The whole sales process, for example, or the whole operating process and are able to tell them what impacts that that particular process.

Manjul: I think that way with all for the Managers is very essential. And that is what we're trying to focus on.

Manjul: think, you know diversity and inclusion and, You know, in Paramal, you know, we calling that whole you know, initiative as a DBA, you know, we've got a DBA policy.

Manjul: So diversity, inclusion belongingness and accessibility. I think this kind of forms you know, our, our bedrock of how we want to make sure that there's inclusion in the organization. 

Manjul: And yes, you know we are focusing at this time, both in making sure that we are acquiring more women talent, but also making sure that, you know, the women talent that is there in the system right now stays with us and thrives

Shivangi: So I wanna ask you what two to three biggest challenges as an HR leader you're looking to solve throughout the year?

Manjul: So I think you know, the biggest challenge is that, you know, this whole environment is very disruptive. Right. So you call it VUCA 

Manjul: Yeah, but I think, you know, that the, the whole world is moving towards disruption. It started, you know, a year or two back. But I think, how do you make sure that, you know, the top leadership as well as people, the last person on the ground.

Manjul: Is, you know, more sensitive to it and is aware about how things will change for that particular individual. I think that is one of the largest you know, sort of you know, concern areas for which we need to, of course, you know, find you know, a response to the second bit is, of course, on, you know, how do you make sure that you are able to, you know, project yourself as an inclusive organization.

Manjul: Right. And not just restricting yourself to only, you know, certain cohorts like women or PWDs or, you know, LGBT, etc. I think, you know, the challenge for us is how do you kind of, you know, make sure that there's awareness and appreciation of the diversity of thought. Right. and I think the third thing will always be about the fact that, you know, the new technologies, for example, a Gen AI is now coming in in a big way.

Shivangi: How. And how soon are organizations able to get onto that bandwagon, right? So I think these couple of things, I think is, is something that will keep a lot of HR people awake at nights. Amazing. I think very precise two to three points, very actionable. You know, I think a lot of people are going to drive a lot of value in that, but I, my favorite is your second point, obviously So I think we're almost coming to an end Manjul. I just have one last question for you. If there's one piece of advice that you would like to give to people leaders across India, what would that be?

Shivangi: I think and I'm sure, you know, if they are CHR or their organizations, they, they know their you know they know the, the, you know, the requirements of the organization. So I think, You know, each organization, and I'm sure this is what they are all working towards, you know, the, the, the understanding of the whole organization has to be sharp enough so that they are able to, you know you know, given you know you know TaylorMade or, and Bespoke solutions for their problems.

Manjul: I think that's the only message. 

Shivangi: Absolutely. I think some of the biggest challenges can be resolved with just understanding and keeping you know, in touch with the pulse of the employee. And then obviously taking steps in time. 

Manjul: I agree. 

Shivangi: Love your wisdom on that. Manjul thank you so much for sharing these and coming on board. 

Manjul: Thank you for having me Shivani. I enjoyed the conversation.