Tahseen: Hello everyone. Welcome to the People-led Show. I'm your host Tahseen Kazi, and our guest for today is the incredible Naveen Janjirala. He's the Head of Digital and AI for COE and corporate functions at TVS Motors. He comes with fifteen years of experience across diverse industries like IT, pharma, and manufacturing.

Tahseen: He has previously held digital transformation positions in organizations like Dr. Reddy's and Wipro Limited. A graduate of IIM Calcutta he's deeply passionate about transforming people experiences through digital transformation. Welcome, Naveen.

Tahseen: Thank you so much for joining us today. 

Naveen: Thank you. Hey, Tahseen. How are you doing today? 

Tahseen: I'm good.

Tahseen: What about you? Doing great. Alright, Naveen. I'll start right off the bat.

Tahseen: Right? And I think the first question we ask all our the HR leaders we talk to because we want to know who's the human behind the human resources. So who is Naveen outside of work? 

Naveen: If you're asking what is something which interests me a lot, which is outside work, I think I love to drive, and' I share a very innate passion towards four wheeler automobiles. And that's something that we really enjoy to kind of get hooked to the industry. Right?

Naveen: There's so much so which is happening in the industry. You've seen this industry getting evolved, right from, you know, ICE engines to what we kind of call right now completely autonomous vehicles. Right? So that also keeps me hooked apart from the fact that I just love driving.

Tahseen: Awesome. That is great. I really love asking this question because I don't think there has been a single time where I've I heard, you know, any answer being repeated, and, I just get to know so much about the person behind the screen. 

Tahseen: It's it's it's great to know that, you know, beyond the HR, there's so much more that people are doing. So, Naveen moving on to, you know, the next question. I'm just trying to understand from you. So you've been in the, digital transformation space for quite some time now, you've worked in Dr. Reddy's, now at TVS. So as a digital transformation leader, what specific employee experience challenges HR leaders face today. 

Naveen: Yep. I think this question has multiple dimension to this. You know, each of the dimension has its own unique challenges.

Naveen: If I were to speak the heart of what transformation lies and revolves around is the process part of it. Right? I think you would expect the process to be evolved. You would expect the process to be stable, and you would expect the process to be there, which is future ready. Right?

Naveen: That's the key for transformation. That's a that poses a very different challenge as leaders for us to kind of ensure that's in place. The second dimension that I would like you to definitely speak about is the rise in expectations.

Naveen: You see a lot of workforce coming into the organizations who are ready. And these workforce are joining big numbers in in major organizations.

Naveen: So the expectations of the experience is completely different. So that is something that you have to kind of be wary about as a people leader. Of course, the third is the technology disruption.

Naveen: So much so you know, we have so many options today that The organizational successful are the ones which are actually riding on technology and completely nailing it. These are the three things that are are right now as a challenges, and I'm sure we will talk about each of these areas, you know, possibly when we go there with the conversation. 

Tahseen: Absolutely, Naveen we will be getting into the depths of each of these. And I want to start right at this question. So you said processes are not evolved. Can you tell us a little more in detail about what you mean by that and how that can, you know, be affecting the entire HR as a function?

Naveen: Yeah. I think, fundamentally, I think what is important is you you look at a process. You look at how ready is your organization with the process. Is your process effective?

Naveen: Is your process you know, has empathy into it? Is your process scalable to large workforces. Because at times the process has to be different for a different geography.

Naveen: When you're looking at certain areas of, the hire to retire cycle. You have to be very specific in terms of knowing what you want to kind of achieve, because that's the key. And your transformation or the layer of technology is always on top of it.

Naveen: So you can't keep changing and filling around with processes for too long. You have to ensure that the process reaches to certain rate of range of maturity before you actually embark on the transformation cycle. 

Tahseen: I think one interesting point that you said there is that, processes need to be evolved. We need to continue doing them for some time before we decide, okay you know, now this is an addition we should make or some change that we should do.

Tahseen: So Naveen, the second challenge that you spoke about is changing employee expectations, and I want to get into a little depth of that.

Tahseen: What is the employee's expectations from employee experience today? Do you see the gen z population changing the narrative of expectations? 

Naveen: Certainly, yes. You know, it's because the gen z population is now very digitally native.

 They are possibly living in the world that we couldn't have even expected it to be, about a couple of years ago. You see the gen z population is right now, getting used to so much of tech. 

Naveen: You have a ten minutes grocery. You are completely digitized your banking operation. You see a lot of gen z population who are you know, doing a lot of trade using the fintech companies, right, in the world's fourth biggest economy, where you're completely paperless. And at home, you're trying to kind of start doing trading. 

Naveen: You know, they they are completely different in terms of not accepting anything which is a mediocre of experience. 

Naveen: So that's what you carry when they are they are entering into the organization because they are already subconsciously , fine tuned to get a baseline of certain expectations that they're getting. In a nutshell, they're expecting very highly collaborative environment, an environment which is non-hierarchical, completely transparent. Highly inclusive as well. And at the foremost, I think they're expecting an environment which is highly productive, and technology rich. 

Tahseen: Absolutely, Naveen.

Tahseen: I think the common thread there is they , they are using technology more than any generation has as ever. And I think that's how it's even translating into the way they their expectations are changing in the organizations they are working at. So I think that's a very prominent point there. And I think from that perspective what are the top three types or categories of digital solutions HR leaders should dive into right away to enhance employee experience. 

Naveen: Yeah. Again, the question is very, industry specific. But I think I want to kind of you know, make it even.

Naveen: Possibly, these would be my three or two, three picks that I'd wanna kind of talk about. The first one would be on the recruitment. While you have seen a lot of technology advancements where your processes in recruitment have got digitized, but I don't think we have seen the penetration of AI as well. 

Naveen: For example, if you look at the way fundamentally that we would have gone through the recruitment cycle, some advancement has happened in terms of auto scheduling, in terms of you know, interview process. Maybe a bit of initial video screening. But are we predicting out of the thousand applications, these are my top ten bets that my recruiters have to kind of spend time to get this talent into the organization, using AI. 

Naveen: I think that is the reason why I think you should look at how you leverage your own organization data to create AI layer on top of these solutions, which makes your unique proposition to identify the right top talent, because otherwise, it's a missed opportunity. Right?

Naveen: The second area possibly I can think about is employee engagement. I think, again this is the heart and soul of the organizations. While we have leveraged technology, but there is finally a huge space again where a lot of contextualization of data for the organization can happen using AI. 

Naveen: Third is, again, something very important. It's about employee wellness you know, both physical and the mental wellness. Well, again, we have tools and technologies. The penetration of these tools and technologies and the importance of that, we could have known during the COVID area.

Naveen: At least would be my top three choices across industries if you have to kind of go after. 

Tahseen: Absolutely. So I think if I if I were to summarize the three areas for HR leaders out there listening to us to digitize, the first is recruitment. The second is employee engagement and listening, and the third is employee wellness, which includes physical as well as mental wellness. 

Tahseen: So, Naveen, we've spoken about what employee expectations are, how they are changing. We've spoken about what are the areas that we need to digitize. But now I think, the big fat question of the hour is, are HR leaders and HR teams prepared for digital transformation? And how would you recommend HR leaders prepare their teams for those initial hiccups? 

Naveen: Yeah.

Naveen: I think I'm a very optimistic person, but I would like to kind of believe that most of the HR leaders and HRBPs and that, the people who are doing in the transformation are prepared because I think technology is the key enabler, and it will definitely define the success, of ensuring that your strategic goals are met. Talking about the key challenges, I think I would like to kind of keep it very simple. I would also recommend to kind of possibly try small and fail small instead of handling or taking up a huge transformation with any of the partner, it's very important that you do a stiff test.

Naveen: You need to kind of put your success metrics in place, or you want to kind of identify which is the pilot that you want to kind of go after. And then look at how you would want to kind of expand this to the larger population.

Naveen: The second most important thing, which is possibly overrated to be spoken about is change management. But very rarely do organizations get it right. And the organization which get it right are the ones who see a very seamless transformation. 

Tahseen: I think one interesting thing that you said in the start when you were speaking, you said that, people are already prepared for technology, and we have data to support that right? 

Tahseen: We surveyed HR leaders in around 230 organizations a few months ago. And what we saw is almost 50% of HR leaders are either already using a technology or, you know, getting ready to use. So even if, right now, we may not see the adoption, that is, quickly about to change because there are already HR leaders out there exploring tools, exploring technology, and seeing what the next curveball is gonna be like. 

Naveen: Let me just add that I think technology is not right now "OR" it is "AND" and it is "WITH" you know the transformation.

Naveen: Right? So it's the key. So I I don't think you would be you would be successful if you're not keeping technology in mind during the transformation.

Tahseen: Absolutely, Naveen. And like you rightly said, technology is not an "OR", it is an "AND". And so I think the big takeaway here is that it's important that we try small and fail small. 

Tahseen: Moving on, what role can HR tech play in listening to employees across the organization? 

Naveen: Yep. I think employee listening by itself is is a huge ecosystem.

Naveen: I think if I can just go back and say, you know, obviously, organizations are made up of people. And people are driven by purpose. 

Naveen: At the same time you know, people are also driven by emotions. So what you would like to kind of do as HR leaders or HR personnel is you want to kind of keep a check on the emotions and how the employee is feeling. At the same time, these emotions of the people or the employees are triggered by various experiences.

Naveen: So experience trigger emotions, and emotions is what you want to kind of capture for you to kind of know how is the organization moving. Where is the organization moving in. What are the interventions which are creating positive emotions.

Naveen: And what what are the interventions or what are the processes which are not so creating great emotions. It's like a barometer that you'd always want to kind of keep a look at. So that's that's the key for listening, and and technology is going to play a huge role because it is it is it serves the entire ecosystem. It serves for HRBPs. It serves for leaders. It also serves the employees.

Naveen: From the employee perspective you look at, the moment you say that you have a very robust tool, right, they know that digital tools have the capability of data privacy, have the capability of anonymity. And, hence, they're far more open in terms of sharing their views. Which is which is what you essentially would want to have as a HR leader.

Naveen: And from a HR leader's perspective, you would want to kind of get to true analytics. 

Naveen: When you're trying to listen, it's it's never a boolean question. It's not an yes or no question. You'd want to kind of have a lot of open ended questions, and that's where technology and AI would come up to kind of do a sentiment analysis of huge data. Right? 

Naveen: So so I think it serves the entire purpose. Technology also serves apart from these two that I've spoken about, is with penetration. So so I think It it it could go anywhere, anytime, and any device.

Naveen: Right? You can just have a survey and not limited to a thirty day, survey or ninety day survey. I've seen organizations could switch to a a poll every day, which which keeps them, you know, very closer to the people.

Naveen: So it helps you to kind of create repeatability, have, you know far more penetration, have the rates of adoption much better. Somewhere I feel fundamentally, listening is the heart and soul of HR, and that could only be solved better by using technology. 

Tahseen: Absolutely. Naveen, there's the one point that you mentioned you spoke that, you know, because there is anonymity, people are more comfortable in giving responses.

Tahseen: So I just wanted to get your view, according to you, what do you think works better in building employee trust and getting them to respond truthfully to feedback surveys? Which is it? Is it an anonymity or confidentiality? 

Naveen: I think both both play important role.

Naveen: While technology takes care of those two, but the third dimension, if I can throw is is in terms of what employees see the results coming out of the listening into translated actions with a definitive timeline. I have seen organizations which publish the results at a very transparent way to the entire organization and say that, look. Hey we have heard you. This is your top you know five areas that you have given us as a feedback. As an organization, it could be a culture, it could be an engagement, it could be, you know, on your compensation structure or rewards and recognition. It could be anything. But these are are five corrective actions that we'll be launching, and these are the dates, definitive timelines, and the interventions, and all signed off by the chairman or by the CHRO themselves, I think, that builds a lot of trust. And the moment an employee sees that their feedback is acted upon right I think that is that is where the culture of give and take feedback happens. 

Tahseen: Alright. 

Tahseen: So, Naveen, you spoke about, taking action. And I think in the in the whole process of taking action, I just wanted to understand from you, what's your take on how people leaders can tackle attrition especially with top talent? 

Naveen: Yeah.

Naveen: First and foremost, I think it's very important for you to define and identify your top talent. That is going to be the key.

Naveen: For example, what variables that define you know, your top talent? Is it the performance? Is it the skill set? Is it the position that they're in, or is it the projects that they're working in? So those are the key variables that you have to kind of identify and let analytics or AI do the job to kind of identify the right talent because you can't rely always on people leaders or HR leaders because when you have data, I think you should use the power of data to kind of show the right people, who the organization thinks are the right fit into the top talent bucket. So that's the first key in terms of identification and setting the rules. 

Naveen: I think the second key is to look at attrition. It's very important for you to kind of predict attrition. And and you only do the attrition prediction using AI models.

Naveen: And this is, again, very specific to your organization. If you have a huge history of data in terms of you know, the prediction and the reasons why people have left the organization, and there is a fair chance that you could arrive at a very good model, which will give you a very predictive analysis and precise analysis of you know, the attrition which can happen in the future. 

Naveen: The third part is the act part of it. And, again, you can use a lot of prescriptive analytics to kind of give solutions to HRBPs or the leaders as to what could be the prescriptive mechanisms to kind of retain, right, depending on lot of data that you have, you could even predict or give a prescriptive analysis of, look, the aspiration of the person is not matching with the with this current job role. And, hence, you try to kind of move him or give him a job rotation. That could be one of the prescriptive measures.

Naveen: Or maybe the the the current salary is not in line with the comp ratio of the industry. So instead of people deciding, which could be judgmental, which would be more subjective, you have an analytics which will give you more precise and right data to kind of give you the right actions. 

Naveen: So I think I want to kind of give a complete tech stack solution right from identification and how do you predict it, and third is how do you act. So this could be a solution which can work independent of the organization if you define your variables. 

Tahseen: Got it.

Tahseen: So I think , the three words that you rightly put it. First is identification. Second is being predictive about it and then being prescriptive about it, being able to take an action. I think this response of yours was loaded with analytics.

Tahseen: I heard a lot of people analytics out there. Right? So what I wanna understand from you is, what is the need of the hour when it comes to people analytics? What should HR leaders be looking at when it comes to people analytics? 

Naveen: Yeah. I think I think what comes to our mind Tahseen would be in in in how best that you can align your people analytics to the business goal. Right? While you have various people analytics. It is very important that you have the right KPIs in each of the view of dashboard.

Naveen: Right? If you're looking at DEI right, as one of the dashboards in people analytics, you should definitely have a KPI of what is is aligned to the organization. Because each of the metric that you take At the at a strategic objective that you want to kind of move your diversity quotient from x percentage to y percentage, that x and y should be defined very well so that you know how is your journey, which is going to be between x and y. Right?

Naveen: So the people analytics should be always overlaid with the KPIs of the organization, which will help the HRBPs and leaders to view as to whether they're on track, off track, and and, you know, the right interventions can happen. I think that is very important. Possibly the second thing that I would like to kind of add on how can organizations move with these four layers. That is going to be a journey by itself. You need to be very strategic. You need to have the right technology partner, the right technology tools, you have huge amount of data.

Naveen: You have to have good computing and the right skill set with the employees to end up to that. So at every step, the organization is going to gain a different value when you are moving in this journey between descriptive to prescriptive analytics. 

Tahseen: I think that that right there is probably gonna be the title of my podcast, which is descriptive, diagnostic, prescriptive, predictive.

Tahseen: That's, like, the entire journey you mentioned there in just one, statement that you said. That was absolutely impactful. 

Tahseen: Naveen, I'm gonna switch gears a little bit here, and I want to learn a little bit more from your own personal experiences. Can you provide a memorable example of how technology had a positive influence on the HR team at at an organization? 

Naveen: Yeah. I think I'd like to go back in the timeline, but the the best part that that during the journey was we're working for the organization which by model, we've decided to have best of the breed in the HR tech space, which essentially meant that most of your data is in different places.

Naveen: It's not in one tech stack. And which also was a challenge in terms of getting people analytics. Right? I think the journey which we took in order to kind of bring in the data, have a data lake of the organization, build a lot of data pipes between each of the player who's playing the smaller role within the entire hire to retire. And trying to kind of put this data back to the data lake was was a huge milestone by itself. And what it also meant is earlier, we never had a full holistic view of people analytics.

Naveen: It was only microscopic. If you had an HR, if you were doing learning analytics, you were only looking at learning. But with this, what it meant was you're able to kind of overlay a lot of datasets.

Naveen: For example, we're able to kind of correlate performance with learning. Or we're able to do vice versa of relating how learning has impacted people performance. We're able to do time study. We're able to corelate the time and attendance.

Naveen: So a lot of things, came into one place, and that was that was a huge project by itself because you would have talking to about ten to twelve different vendors trying to kind of set this up. I I remember the HR leaders and HRBPs, had a huge eye opening of of how their myths were completely , taken off by looking at data because data speaks. Because you are able to kind of draw analytics. A very, very a strong correlation between the entire cycle. For example, how people coming in from certain organizations were able to perform better, and they're able to kind of get into high roles in the organization.

Naveen: So we were able to do a lot of correlation of data, and that was huge. And this happened even before people analytics, which got matured as what we speak right now, and that's the best part. 

Tahseen: Wow.

Tahseen: I mean, I can understand there is clear value in data and people analytics and in technology. And that right there, what you shared is a perfect example of that. 

Tahseen: I think we have just one last question left from you which is if there's one advice you would give to people leaders across India, what what would it be? And I'm especially looking forward to this answer considering the fact that you've worked across various industries.

Tahseen: So is there any experience that you have from that and that you can share as an advice to our people leaders out there. 

Naveen: Sure. I think first, I want to get a start saying that you know, people leaders earlier just had one hammer to go to, in terms of the the options that they had in technology and every other problem looked like a nail.

Naveen: But now with the with technology evolving so much there are lot many options. And the advice would be choose your tool wisely. That is going to be the key.

Naveen: And the second thing that I definitely want to kind of add is leverage AI. I think that's the future. It's going to solve a lot of problems, identify the use cases even if it's small. Identify the use cases and push your teams to start leveraging AI. 

Tahseen: Wow. Choose your tools wisely and leverage AI. It cannot get better than that. I think that's that's it for me today. Naveen, thank you very much. This was great.

Tahseen: This was great conversation, and thank you very much for your time. 

Naveen: Thank you, Tahseen. Pleasure talking to you.